This class when it was initially out in legion actually felt very chaotic and the name Havoc suited it very well. I understand fel rushing around to proc a damage buff is dangerous for raids but damn was it fun and now its just this boring stationary rotation that people complain about on the forums all the time(demonic). Yes demonic is much safer for raids but this class as stated before used to be volatile but in a way that was controllable with some practice.
So, from your perspective, Havoc is only Havoc if it is Momentum? Demonic is easily as if not more thematic than Momentum.
But perhaps you just mean gameplay? Well, to each their own. Momentum really doesn’t work in higher-end content, and using it takes about 10x as much effort for the exact same output and much more risk.
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Did they ever fix the fel rush dc bug ?
All i remember was my dps going mia mid pulls alot xD
It not really a bug that can easily be fixed. It’s an issue with client/server syncing, latency, and the server’s arbiter rules that prevent things like speed hacking and wall hacking. The problem is that Fel Rush is probably too small and too fast for this to make sense. Fel Rush only takes 500ms to complete its animation, and players can easily have a round-trip latency of a tenth or even a fifth of that value, with their jitter (variance in their ping) being potentially equal to that value, if they’re on a poor quality connection. It’s also an extreme amount of motion in that period.
It’s very easy to accidentally stumble across the the speed hacking warden, especially with high latency. Desyncs with that same warden are why you sometimes see peeps get disconnected walking onto or off of elevators, because the server thinks the elevator is in a different spot and thus the server and client are disagreeing on where the player could legally be at.
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I honestly don’t know the last time I dc’d from fel rush
Yep, it’s an issue almost solely confined to lower-quality connections, and possibly lower end systems (I wouldn’t be surprised if system hitching during high-load situations could contribute to it). Most people, as far as I can tell, don’t run it to it hardly ever. Some people are absolutely plagued by it. Unfortunately, there’s only so much that can be done about that without completely redesigning the ability from scratch. Client/server game architecture is hard.
10x as much effort For a class/spec and spell (Demonic) that takes literally no effort. So using momentum would put you in line with what? Arcane mage level of difficulty?
If you think that class/spec complexity comes only from the amount of buttons a class has to press, then you are sorely mistaken.
Momentum build takes a lot more effort than most DPS specs have to put in right now, it’s just largely unfeasible on most high-end competitive content. It’s awful to play with and should be shelved as a mechanic completely.
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Raven, it’s just the meme trolling these days. Everyone takes the shot on Havoc (and BM and a couple others, but mostly Havoc) because it feels good to dunk on others when Blizzard is pissing on everyone. Everyone is so sure that Havoc can top charts with the skill level of a 2-year-old because their salty buddy told them they could, or they tried a DH and beat a bunch of 8-10k DPS scrubs in LFR, or they read a bunch of other posts from peeps like Thedahli that also asserted the complete lack of skill involved, also without evidence, and decided it was easier to mindlessly believe something just to have someone to hate.
Hate unifies people. When you’ve got someone else to hate, or to think lesser of, it lets you ignore your own failings and inadequacies and insecurities and concerns. When you are feeling powerless or stepped on, it can make you feel like you might have some agency left in your life if you can go step on other people, prove you still have some power or worth or something. It’s a cheap emotional balm for a shattered ego.
So whatever. Let them take their cheap shots, report them for trolling, and move on. You’re not going to convince them, and if their ego is that in need of shoring up, maybe it’s best they get it. That type of toxic emotional lashing is habit-forming, though, and it carries its own consequences in time. I simply let karma handle it.
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Oh, I’m not trolling, this toon just recently became my main my friend.
Because this had been my main for a long time, and I realized how god awfully easy it was to stomp everyone and it bored me.
- Hasn’t raided above heroic (on either toon, actually).
- Only raid of record this expansion is Emerald Palace, and you didn’t start running that until November, 5 months after it came out. You also only ran it a handful of times, likely just to get your essence.
- Highest M+ run is two 10’s in Season 3, both of which were only really barely under time (one of them by less than a minute).
So ya, you think Havoc is easy because you’ve never actually done any difficult content. Any class is easy when you’re just slumming it in heroic and mythic <10.
It’s been pointed out plenty that Havoc requires a comparable amount of skill to optimize at the high end as other classes. Havoc’s skill floor, however, is much higher. Basically, if you’re bad at Havoc, and you’re playing with other people that are also bad, you’re going to do better than that. And this is exactly the effect you’re seeing. Havoc is easier to do reasonable DPS when you’re bad. You’re only going to top charts against other bad-to-mediocre people, but given your experience, you’ve never played with anyone that actually has much skill at this game.
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You spent a lot of time on that post my friend, how quick you are to literally go through my progress and name off the things I’ve done. But I knew you were going to do that because you’re predictable. My progress has nothing to do with the fact that the spec literally has a 4 button rotation. You can’t change that fact nor can you change the fact that the spec is minimal effort due to the rotation for great payoff and let’s not start with PVP and it’s utilities (blade dance immunity) and self healing via literally attacking someone else, which is again, minimal effort.
Oh also #casuallifesmattertoo
Yes, because it’s relevant to your claim. You claim it’s too easy to “stomp everyone”, so the difficulty of the content you’ve done is directly and materially relevant to whether that claim holds much weight in this discussion.
This is like me, after a couple decades driving on the road, taking corners hard for fun, and a few years spent racing go-karts (two-stroke, non-shifter, open-frame karts, top speed of maybe 45-50 mph) when I was a teen, declare that car racing is really quite easy. I’ve no experience with the harder end of that type of activity, so my opinion on the ease of racing is colored by the fact that I’ve only experienced easy racing. Just the same with yours, you’ve not actually done any difficult content, so your opinion on the ease of the class holds little bearing, because it is colored by the fact that you’ve only done easy content. It leads you to believe the class is easy, because you’ve never been put in a position where your abilities are stressed, or put up against people that are serious about doing well.
The fact that you think the number of rotational buttons translates to difficulty (and got wrong the number of rotational buttons, too!) is additional evidence. Havoc has 5 (Chaos Strike, Demon’s Bite, Blade Dance, Immolation Aura, Eye Beam. Count them with me: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5), and the vast vast majority of DPS specs in this game have between 4 and 6 buttons in their rotations using their dominant raid builds. The median is 5, and the average is actually a bit below 5.
But number of buttons doesn’t correlate to difficulty. Affliction has the most number of buttons (6-9, depending on build, and they actually have a solid amount of flexibility in their build even in mythic raiding), but the complexity of their rotation is moderate, if not on the easier end of the spectrum. Fire only has 4 buttons in their rotational at any given time (Fireball or Scorch, Pyroblast, Fire Blast, Meteor), but they take a fairly high amount of skill to do well, especially since most of their damage is during their Combustion window, where you’re casting two abilities per GCD, and a single mistake can cost you huge amounts of damage.
It takes minimal effort to get an ok payoff. I say “ok”, because it will still be far far below what you could do with proper optimization (souls in particular require a fair amount of judgement and reaction, if you simply mindlessly consume them, you waste a lot of fury and Eye Beam CDR). The reason you think it is a “great” payoff is because at your skill level and effort investment, Havoc does noticeably better than other specs. Havoc at low skill is stronger than most other specs at low skill.
This is where your experience factors in. If your only experience is in that type of low-skill environment (and it is), then ya, you’re going to think Havoc is way stronger than it should be for so little effort. But that’s because both you and the people you’re playing with are much lower on that skill spectrum than the top end, and other classes take a larger hit from that than you do.
So is Havoc very strong for little effort is content that doesn’t really matter? You betcha. Havoc is crazy easy to top meters with in irrelevant low keys and loot-pinata raid difficulties, which is what you have experience with.
The mistake you made is in thinking that your experiences are broadly applicable to all content and all skill levels, which simply isn’t the case.
Get it?
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Well that makes sense although im pretty sure we had oceanic servers in legion and most of us were playing with sub 20 ping 
No it would put it above any melee due to the toxic nature of the talent. But you’ve already shown you know nothing about it with such an ignorant remark. 
Yea, I guess me and THOUSANDS of other people complaining about DHs in pvp are also ignorant.
[citation needed]
Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Also also, as pointed out in other threads, this is again a skill level thing. Havoc drops off sharply at the upper end of the PvP rating spectrum, with them really only having one viable comp and very low representation. Why is this? Because players at the top end have learned how to handle Havoc, and when Havoc is handled like that, they’re not exactly strong. Their self-healing can be almost entirely negated simply by CCing or kiting them during their Demonic windows (interrupting Eye Beam also goes a long way, since Eye Beam’s damage itself is a solid amount of healing). Blade Dance is on a very reliable cycle, so you can learn to time your important ability around it, rather than mindlessly zerging your stuns into it.
Players lower on the skill spectrum? Ya, they prefer to just whine on the forums in the hopes that mommy Blizzard will give them the free win they so clearly deserve.
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Funny because I’ve heard you yourself, on the forums say that certain aspects on the class definitely need to be looked at.
Well you or Raven, one of you I’ve seen say that certain ability’s or spells need to be looked at because they are a little TOO strong.
But basically what this boils down to is that you, being an elitest who ONLY plays in high end pvp and pve is making an argument based on that and only that. The rest of the population of the playerbase doesn’t matter to you and that this game is solely and only based around who can perform at top end level and that’s when specs/classes matter. So basically fk everyone else. You realize that portion of the playerbase is extremely small though.