What does a solo queue arena system look like?

PVP Arenas
1

I started WoW for the first time ever in Shadowlands and I have absolutely loved it. Then my friend decided to train me into playing ranted arenas. I absolutely hate him for it. All I do is spend my free time thinking about arenas and watching youtube videos on how to get better until 3am even though I’m a grown a** man with a job.

But what’s the issue? Unless that specific friend is on, I CANNOT play rated 3s. I have a hard time queueing into LFG to the point I just leave and go play rocket league.

In my professional career, the best advice I was given was that I should always try to give feedback, and especially in a respectful manner. So here’s my try.

As a newbie to arenas, I would love a space where I can just practice and get better against people in my skill range. I currently spam skirmishes when my friend is not online, and it kind of helps to just get to play. But skirmishes doesn’t really provide me with matches against people in my skill range and some really weird ilvl disparity (I really don’t mind this if rating existed).

One of my other favorite games Rocket League took their smallest queues and just added rating to it (rumble, hoops, dropshot). I thoroughly enjoy queueing these queues because I get to play people around my skill level and consistently have that motivation to get better.

Back to the problem: Rated arenas is a system that works for good and experienced players. However, it is a system that deters NEW players from playing and has LOW RETENTION of new players (simple growth retention strategy).

  1. Could an option be for WoW to simply just add rating to skirmishes? The issue is that now you will separate the already small player pvp base and ruin queue health for your long time players.

  2. Allow solo queueing into rated 3s. Mandate minimum role count for healers as 1 and maximum tank count as 1. Almost every game is already designed with a meta in mind. Make it simple for everyone and just state how many roles make up the game. It’s already done in dungeon: 1tank, 1healer, 3dps. Why any different for rated 3s? And if you don’t want to use that meta, then you must be forming a group with friends/guildies and just make your own group. This doesn’t deteriorate queue health at higher ranks, it gives newbie players an option to play rated for lower rating, and if you want to make better comps as experienced high rated players then you can continue to use LFG and queue into the same queue.

Those are my thoughts on some options to make solo-queueing a better experience. I hope people can contribute some other ideas so we can all live in a fantasy land together :slight_smile:

5 Likes
2

They do have a hidden MMR, but its really sloppy for the lack of a better way to describe it. What I mean is, you may be in a game as a lets say 2K player with another 2K player, and your opponents may be 1500 and 2500 skill levels. This is sorta a strange place to be. Your groups MMR may be like 2K and your opponent could also be like 1500 just for the sake of faster Q’s also.

So its really sloppy, for the use of getting games to pop.

The item level issues created by Blizzard also make things a little wacky too.

3

It always sounds good on paper because it works in other games, but honestly WoW is a completely different designed game that really doesn’t have other MMORPG competitors to compare it too.

It’s hard to compare to a MOBA or a FPS because those don’t rely so heavily on classes without outside factors.

DotA2 for example, can have a hero purchase different items to compliment the team, can go to different areas of the map to “farm” to compliment the team. These are changes that can occur, 1-4-10-20 min into the game. Your character can adjust mid game and be effective.

For FPS, a person with a pistol and good aim, can win a game by themselves. It doesn’t rely as much on the weapons you use, but more so your aim.

These are different dynamics that change during a game to accommodate your team.

In WoW, your class is your class. You don’t get new buttons (for the most part) once you enter an arena. Your class synergy will be very reliant on what the game pares you up with.

So you enter this system of:

  • I’m an Arcane Mage, I KEEP GETTING HUNTERS AS MY TEAMMATES WTFFFF
    vs
  • I’m a Fire Mage, I keep getting r1 rogues as my teammates lolololol
  • Solo queue the gets flooded with “cheese specs” that allows classes like fire mage, boomkin, or Ret to climb to ratings higher than normal due to facing unorganized teams.
    - Go into a skirmish right now vs 3 paladins, your team will be deleted, now why don’t we see more 3 paladin teams in rated?

Solo Queue would devolve into this LFG mess, where essentially LFG is at right now.

  • Queue LFG
  • Invite who ever queues up
  • Play X games till someone quits
  • Queue LFG
  • Invite who ever queues up
  • Play X games till someone quits

WoW needs a better UI for groupings and LFG (different engine too), it needs a better reward system, needs better skirmishes (maybe templated), but Solo Queue doesn’t really solve any of these issues.

The most important thing that WoW needs to better the social dynamic of PvP is to create a shared PvP hub.

Goblin Undermine - FFA PvP Horde/Alliance Zone

  • New PvP “zone”
    - Cross Faction, Changing “Pokemon Stadium” Arena, (Brawler’s Guild style) 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 speculation games
    • Ingame Tournaments utilizing SC2 technology (Queue your “team”)
    • Weekly/Daily Quests
    • Pet battles
    • Weekly/Seasonal Rewards
    • Xmog Vendors
    • Changing “Pokemon Stadium” Dueling Area
    • PvP Vendors
    • Etc…

Players need a better place to connect with other PvP players, that’s very hard to do when you are cross faction or cross team set up in a death match.

4 Likes
4

This all makes sense, but I think the problem I’m trying to solve for is for NEW players. All of the issues you mentioned don’t apply to newbies or low ratings. Cheese specs at 800 rating doesn’t mean jack don’t mean anything if you’re not playing. People just want a way to play the game. And if you’re a business, I’m pretty sure you care about keeping subscriptions.

However, there’s also no reason why a better LFG system + PvP hub can’t work with a solo queue. They’re individual ideas that tackle different problems.

2 Likes
5

I agree, I just think those are the over arching problems to solve. If it were a hierarchy system, those would be above Solo Q, imo.

Now, I do think Solo Q 6v6 RBGs/Brawls could be a good way to get more people into the PvP Scene, but I do not think that relates directly to Arena.

(I could see 6v6 RBG solo Q before I think arena would be implemented)

I just don’t understand what Solo Q would “solve” that is not just an “easier LFG.”

My buddy actually complained the other day about it taking ~2 hrs for him to finish the Skirmish Weekly on his rogue.

This is a direct quote from him: (lol)

goign to take me 2 hours to get 10 arena skrim wins

and the games are 30s each

i get the 24k hp monks target calling for me

“sap the warrior and kill shaman”

… no

my paladin dies without pressing bubble

why can’ ti have the live lords

every 3s game

LOL

haven’t won one

always paladin/paladin

or paladin/plaadin/paladin

or priest/priest/paladin

90 minutes at 5 wins

I don’t see how Solo Queue changes any of this, personally.

  • I hit Solo Q.
  • Undergeared Warrior on my team
  • I hit Solo Q.
  • Undergeared Lock on my team
  • I hit Solo Q.
  • AFK priest on my team
  • I hit Solo Q.
  • Inexperienced (back pedaling) Hunter on my team
1 Like
6

If you can solo queue, the rating system is supposed to actually address all of the issues you mentioned.

Any good rating system needs a few basics: longevity, expectations to play consistently, and some normal curve of players.

Arena 3s & LFG is optimized for 1400+ I would say. In a system with flourished players playing consistently which include a better system at lower ratings, you would find some balance in your games. However, this is not to say that lower ratings is always fun (any game with solo queue finds ridiculous toxicity at low ranks).

Without a solo queue, arenas seems to be the wild west for anything sub-1400 which could be part of the bad experience. Need to increase the maturity of low ranks.

7

Also like to point out that the depth of class play in those other genera is just different and incomparable because while skill does exist there, the raw number of abilities in WoW is kinda crazy for a lot of players to grasp. IMO at R1 levels in WoW, excluding exploits and BS comps / broken classes the potential for some truly insane skill really does exist in a chess like way that you just don’t see in other games.

WoW really does have crazy potential, just that most of the time Blizzard and the players leave most of that on the table.

8

Haha I like the analogy. I would say that chess also has a ton of potential since the skill cap and strategies are so interesting, yet it is one of the least popular games today. There is some correlation with simplicity to general adoption.

9

I understand having a rating tied to it, so you feel like you can have more practice in a “bracket.”

That is 100% true.

But again, I feel like that could devolve into the system as mention above, “I’m losing because of X and not ME”

It’s harder to practice and actually improve, imo, when more outside factors keep throwing a wrench at you.

Consistency is key.

And I think that’s a big part of improving in WoW. (Why healer/dps 2s is the best way to learn, it’s easier to make mistakes and “bounce back.”)

I think that could be solved with a better LFG tool that allows a better filtration system.

Maybe not the best terminology for a game but you could have and LFG tool that quickly filters out key aspects of your “goals”:

Class - Mage, rogue, priest, etc
Current Expansion Rating Bracket - 1500-1700, 1700-1900, etc
Style games - Practice, rating push, competitive

Outside of wanting to practice at your skill level, it feels like it can be solved with additions to Skirmishes.

  • Over geared players are very frustrating to play vs, or intimating
    • Skirmishes are now Templated
  • I want to still earn Conquest on my Own
    • Skirmishes now reward 25 conquest per win
    • Rated Arena Conquest reward increased to 75/125 in 2s/3s respectively

Etc…

2 Likes
10

They could just normalize the item levels, like say when you zone in everyone has item level 200 no matter what gear you got, so really then it comes down to how your stats are allocated allowing you to keep the customization component of WoW intact. (making up the item level selection point just for illustration)

11

Current Expansion Rating Bracket - 1500-1700, 1700-1900, etc

I find this to be an issue (I do believe LFG is still an upper echelon tool for experienced players not noobs), you shouldn’t be finding groups by knowing their rating. You should just queue and play. Or can WoW get to a state where the following brackets exist and people consistently queue into it?

0-400, 400-600, 600-800, 800-1000?

1 Like
12

Yeah, personally I feel like that is incredibly important for new players.

I think skirmishes should normalize gear so that players don’t get discouraged, or undergeared players can improve their gear on their own time. (Alts and new players alike)

13

Yah would also make it really fun for anyone to get a taste of arena if they have never played.

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I think the LFG tool is extremely outdated, and improvements to that system would make Rated Arena less intimidating (for lack of better term).

But at that same time, like you said above, you want to practice at your skill level.

Rating is a big factor to filtering out people and players.

Now this is just brain storming/spit balling an idea.

But say LFG had a “Practicing Bracket” and queueing up with another player who also choose “practicing” reduces the rating gain and lost from wins and loses by 50%.

(Again, a spit ball idea)

But improving the system like this is a way to better encourage players to stick around. Hey we lost 3-4 games, but are only down X amount of rating, it’s not the end of the world, lets keep going…

A way to improve that social dynamic, that consistency, rather than Q → blame teammate X → Q again.