What do heroic guilds do after heroic? Mythic restrictions

Community General Discussion
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I have a lot of toons spread out across servers and am probably in 6 active guilds.

I’ve noticed something about the heroic guilds – they start in normal for the first few weeks and then transition to heroic. This lasts until the final boss goes down and then … ? nothing.

They might reclear a few times, and maybe pug mythic once but that’s the dead end for the group.

This is puzzling because there is a WHOLE DIFFICULTY above that with higher level gear.

Why don’t they continue on to mythic? The answer is simple, really

The 20 person requirement.

Except the last boss, the only hard part about mythic raid is finding a group. By the time non-world-firsters are there the rest of the mythic bosses are about as hard (or easier) than the last boss of heroic.

So why keep the 20 person restriction? I get that it makes mechanics more complicated but Blizzard spends so much time figuring out how to keep people engaged when they literally have a “season is over” feature.

The end of heroic signals to heroic guilds (which are by far the most popular) “season is done, your friends are gone, go do something else”

And why? 20 is too specific of a number for a group of friends. First, it is kinda hard to attain. It seems like guilds do a good job maintaining about 13-17 raiders week to week.

Second, if a guild DOES have more than 20 active raiders by the time they clear heroic (this is so rare) they have to then cut their friends. These are not guilds that have deigns to get CE, they would likely just kill the first 2-3 bosses for loot. But that would give something to farm since mythic gear doesn’t expire the same way heroic does halfway through the season.

What could be so important that it would be more important than fixing the broadcasted “stop playing this game” that happens every season to most guilds?

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Also the skill requirement. You can carry dead weight through heroic but you can’t do the same on mythic, and many AotC guilds aren’t willing to trim the fat in order to kill actually difficult bosses.

That might be true for the first one or two mythic bosses, but even mythic Terros is harder than heroic Razageth.

The 20 man requirement is so that blizzard can design fights assuming you have every class utility at hand, as well as for the tuning purposes.

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Which has been a lie since they brought this argument in WoD. They are simply too lazy and stubborn and will continue this path until they can no longer justify the development of Mythic 20 and will either cut it down or remove it completely. Its a dying form of content because they still live in their 2005 times that raiding has to be annoying and the hardest boss is the roster boss.

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They either do more heroic, or push the first 1-3 bosses of mythic because usually atleast the first one is free, and the beginning boss of each wing is generally not terribly difficult

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Proof? Cause from what I’ve seen they definitely balance around having all utility at hand (mythic Razageth requiring Rescues from Evokers for Paladins and priests, mythic Sire requiring warlock portals, etc.)

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You absolutely can carry a fair amount of dead weight on mythic. The first boss probably only needs half the dps to be doing damage above the tank at this point in the season with an afk healer or two.

The point is the guilds who DON’T kick their weakest link because they are all friends wind up having nothing to do after they clear heroic. Raiders like to prog, and there’s nothing to prog.

At least if they could go into mythic and kill a boss or two they’d have something to do every week. Then they could prog the boss they haven’t killed yet, and have their time together.

It’s not going to break the game. These guilds aren’t about to start getting CE or anything.

They can continue to design it that way for the most part, and err on the side of the mechanics being harder for a smaller group, not easier. Maybe tie the actual CE achievement to a 20 person raid but we’re just talking about people having something to do when instead, once the final boss of heroic dies, most guilds are basically like “see y’all next tier!”

But they don’t go on to mythic because the raid team is not 20 people. It is some other number. And it’s just too much work for most heroic guilds to fill that roster for mythic. My old-school main is in a guild with multiple people timing 23+ keys, largest guild on the server. Mythic would be easy for this group but putting together a mythic raid is a logistical nightmare that is basically a part-time job. So they don’t.

Instead it’s “GG, see ya next season!”

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:roll_eyes:

if it’s too much work to recruit, then they are in for a rude surprise on later bosses that require 80-100 or more pulls, coordinated/assigned cooldowns and strategy to kill. best to stay in heroic if something like recruiting is “too much work”

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Some people are happy just doing heroic. Nothing wrong with that.

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Did you read my post at all? That is not AT ALL what I am trying to say haha

honestly some people on these forums …

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I am in a normal/heroic raiding guild even though this expansion I am taking a break from raiding, but we would do normal and once we clear it, we do it a couple more weeks and then since we have a little time after we will start on heroic. Then we will go full heroic focus.

Once we clear heroic some people will take a break from raiding then but we will still do a couple more weeks to of it and then we will move to doing the “Glory to the raider” achievement on normal mode. Once that is done (doesn’t take long) then some more will take their raiding break till next tier or we do alt raids or we will do heroic for more clears. Mostly though, people are burnt out by then and taking a break from raiding till next tier once all is done.

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Pretty sure alt runs , or just running clears.

My old guild used to do raid clears just as a guild event even after progression

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I know on my Horde server Hakkar, it’s damn near impossible to find 19 other players who are willing to attempt Mythic raiding or even have the skills to prog it successfully seeing as how Hakkar is a “New Player” server. But I’m not spending the money to transfer over all 13 of my characters.

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The restriction of 20 players is one reason.

The other reason is that steam rolling level 2 dungeons at 8 to 10 minutes a pop is way easier and gives you mythic quality gear.

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Yeah, pretty much.

Running theme of our guild since the changes in WoD is to clear Heroic, see if we care enough to do Mythic (we never do) and farm heroic for a week or two after that and then quit saying we’ll come back next tier… So far we’ve never came back for that next tier and we just wait until a new xpac drops and try again then.

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This isn’t true AT ALL.

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this is a huge, huge problem that blizzard has failed to address. they have way too many tiny dead servers, and it is immeasurably more difficult to maintain a mythic roster on those servers than it is on a high pop server.

anyone who seriously wants to mythic raid is best off transferring to one of the high pop servers, it’s like night and day.

you cannot find groups raiding mythic on the dead servers, nor can you build a team because you can’t recruit anyone to the dead servers.

I think mythic will be open cross ream earlier? did I read something about that, idk. that would help the low pop server problem.

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right? that comment was so laughably wrong it was unironically hilarious. OP has 0 actual mythic experience if they legimiately think it’s as easy as heroic. I will grant them the first two are pretty easy, which is a design I’d like to see change. but the rest? not even close.

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Maybe it’s fatigue. End game is repeating the same activities (M+, N/H/M raids) with just more mechanics. Aotc is fine for a majority of the player base and that’s okay.

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That’s not my point here. My point is that the guild as a whole runs out of something to do and people take a break until next season. I personally enjoy keys and run much higher than that, this is an observation about the health of the game.

I don’t find them challenging. I guess you do though. Hardest part is just getting the group together

I’ve been running mythic raids since my very first season. Try again :slight_smile:

If you could accuse me of anything, I took a break from mythic raiding this season and have only killed 2 bosses (last true season I was 10/11)

EDIT: If people had ACCESS they would see how easy these bosses are. But they are behind a veil of “you can only do this with the same people”. Join a group that does mechanics well and they fall over

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It’s even worse that they place new people on essentially dead servers only to find out later that if they want to get serious about raiding you need to transfer to servers like Area 52 or Illidan.

But I get it, there’s no money in fixing the problem.

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