The eagles, feather ornaments in hair, and facepaint seem to paint to some inspiration from the First Nation, or Indigenous American Tribes.
Their accents are still Scottish though, right?
The eagles, feather ornaments in hair, and facepaint seem to paint to some inspiration from the First Nation, or Indigenous American Tribes.
Their accents are still Scottish though, right?
Their culture is Warcraft.
Jokes aside, it looks like some mix of indigenous American, Scottish, and like… Hobbits, what with the Tolkien-esque hill houses.
In addition, they seem to draw on some general themes of the Celts for warpaint, general fierce disposition, and possibly with their clan structure.
I think the Wildhammer’s link to gryphons - a Warcraft addition - might be what gave them a feather-ornament motif, though there is no lack of old societies and legends that it may have been inspired by instead/as well.
I think there are real people in Australia living in underground hill houses, though probably not as cute as the hobbit houses, hehe
There’s also a possibility that the hill houses were impacted/inspired by some ancient druid burial mounds:
Wow, those look very cool!
I’m actually not familiar with the wildhammer clan structure. Would you mind elaborating a bit on that?
This is all off the top of my head, so take it with a grain of salt:
From adventures in the Twilight Highlands, the Wildhammers seem to have multiple autonomous clans who have their own inter-clan rivalries, as compared to the largely unified Ironforge clans ruled by the Bronzebeards, or even the Dark Iron under the Thaurissans. (The Dark Irons have rebels opposed to Moira, but they are treated more as rebels in a civil war rather than autonomous clans parting ways.)
Yeah I felt as if the Wildhammer Dwarves are more the original Scottish Highlanders. Allow me to make a bit of a comparative analysis. Time for the resident history teacher/nerd to shine!
So the Wildhammer Dwarves live north and northeast of the most populated parts of Dwarven Lands (The Bronzebeard and Dark Iron clans seeming bigger with bigger cities and towns) and the Wildhammers also have smaller, more decentralised communities. To the point that the Hinterlands Dwarves and the Twilight Highlands dwarves are barely in communication with each other at all. Aerie Peak is the closest thing they have to a major city, but the Wildhammer clans generally look after themselves and pay little attention to High Thane Falstad - as opposed to the Bronzebeards and Dark Irons whose King and Emperor respectively commanded a much stronger control over their people as a whole. I’d also argue the Bronzebeards and Dark Irons have a higher population, importantly. Wildhammer culture is still based off shamanism, as opposed to the Bronzebeards who adopted the Light through more interconnection with other countries - the Alliance, specifically (though the Wildhammers did of course eventually join officially). This has led to distinct cultural differences, and some degree of distaste for other kinds of dwarves.
This is highly comparable to mid 16th century Scotland where the lowlanders began to embrace Anglic speech, Protestantism and a much more centralised, English-influenced government (something that was further completed in the 17th century when the Stuarts became the ruling family of both England and Scotland). The Highlanders were more resistant to this change, continuing to speak Gaelic and largely having a much more decentralised, traditional and less populated government. They wore more traditional clothing (favouring kilts while many in the lowlands were starting to embrace more English styles of clothing) and generally rejected the notion of having to act in the way of the English, who many still saw as enemies, not some sort of cultural inspiration.
So I think the OVERALL theme is very much a Highlander/Lowlander thing, though those terms mean increasingly less in the modern world, which is why I’m bringing up the 16th/17th centuries specifically
In terms of the tattoos, I think that’s more of an ancient Celtic influence, but still very Scottish inspired. The feathers? I couldn’t say, really. I always saw that as a simple acknowledgement of shamanism and the importance of nature, or simply even a homage to the gryphons with whom the Wildhammer have such close relations. But I genuinely think much of their inspiration does come directly from Scotland, just from different parts. The Bronzebeards are the Lowlanders, who were always more cosmopolitan and city-oriented whereas the Wildhammers are the Highlanders, more decentralised, traditional people with smaller villages and a whole lot of Scottish pride XD
I have not noticed the wildhammers expressing a lot of hostility to the bronzebeards (who would be the English in this metaphor, right?)
Nor have they appeared much more prideful in their own cultures/traditions than the bronzebeards, dark iron, or indeed most races. For example:
you make a strong point when you say that the bronze beards adopted their worship of the light from other countries, but there’s no evidence I can find that they (the bronzebeards) ever had a shamanistic tradition of the style the wildhammers have. Indeed, shamanism is probably a new religion adopted by only some dwarves after the original faith in the titans that all dwarves started with was forgotten!
While on the topic of shamanism though: are the highlanders known for religious practices that resemble shamanism? Because there are other real world cultures that definitely are!
True but at the very least their ancient magic (which incidentally turned Magni into a diamond) is very focused on communicating with the earth. So I sorta assumed shamanism but that might be a bit of a stretch. We do know the dwarves were all once the same people and that the Dark Irons at least still have an elemental focus (albeit partially because they were dumb and summoned Ragnaros) and the Bronzebeards, as mentioned above, valued the earth. That elemental focus led me to make an educated guess that at some point they all practiced a form of shamanism.
Well here’s where we time jump back to the ancient world of the Celts again. They practiced druidism which was concerned with the natural world and especially held trees to be sacred. Druids in this context were supposedly connected to the spirit world which sounds a bit like shamanic ancestor worship. That said we know VERY little about the druids as most of the sources were destroyed and the practices dismissed as barbaric by the Romans who wrote about it.
In the mid 16th century analogy the Highlanders actually clung to Catholicism whereas the lowlanders embraced Protestantism. So I think the ancient Celts fit the shamanism specifically better.
I would say that the Wildhammer are wholly NW Europe “inspired” and by that I mean a lot of their stuff is taken directly from Celtic, Gaelic, and Germanic cultures of Ye Olde Times. Their tattoos, their shamanistic culture, their love of gryphons, and even their “hobbit homes” are all straight out of old European civilizations.
The main outlier would be the “hobbit” homes; those are most reminiscent of Icelandic turf houses, which are still technically European of course, but just one step removed since Iceland is… well, you know.
edit: to clarify that while there were various native American tribes that had dugout homes and such, the ones in Iceland are nearly identical - sloped roofs, aboveground, etc. whereas the native American ones were typically dug into the earth itself.
Oh, I’d completely forgotten about the druids! Yes, in that context I am starting to see more of a resemblance to the Celts. While the word “shaman” is definitely more associated with indigenous Americans, that is more of a game mechanics thing.
An ingame shaman bears about as much resemblance to a real-world druid as a real-world shaman (that is to say: probably not much at all, except for a bowdlerized fictional take on the concept of harnessing the power of nature).
I guess the final points I still think are worth debating are the aesthetics: I think I should compare some pictures of the facepaints that the Celts used, and see whether the ingame wildhammer facepaints more closely resemble them or that of the indigenous Americans.
(Also obviously I still think the feathers are important but I wouldn’t consider that alone to be enough here)
Personally I think the native american people are best represented by the Tauren, and the dwarves remain very much European-influenced. But these things are multi-layered.
For example, the Draenei draw influences from the Byzantine Empire (these especially imo. Titles like Exarch for instance are purely Byzantine) but also, Russia, and to a certain extent Judaism. They’re a mix of a few themes.
The orcs… it’s hard to say what they draw influence from. Or the Night Elves. They’re really quite incomparable to most real life societies.
Then you get messes like the goblins who are such an awful stereotype that it’d put 2nd world war propaganda to shame. I’m glad folks like Gazlowe are at least STARTING to break that mould.
So like, point is… ultimately comparing any WoW race to a real life culture has its benefits but also its limitations. Really you can interpret them in a variety of ways.
As someone who is excited to level a Wildhammer shaman come prepatch, this has been a very engaging read!
This is very likely the truth, given all that I’ve learned from this thread.
Its just disappointing, I guess. I was hoping I’d finally found a warcraft race inspired by nonwhite cultures that wasn’t monstrous or an animal-person. The closest thing we seem to have are those bandits around Uldum and they’re not exactly a multifaceted, deeply written part of the lore.
The Uldum bandits being Arabic-themed (in an Arabian Nights manner at that) isn’t great, no, so that kind of discredits them as a good example as well.
The closest thing you can get is draenei, who are Jewish-coded in the stylization of ancient Hebrews. They are not savage or monstrous in personality or culture, BUT they are represented as horned demons with cloven hooves and the ones we can play/are allied with are the only good ones, whereas the original eredar are all evil monsters hellbent on wiping out the universe.
When you also consider all the times Blizzard has written the draenei as punching bags for orcs or demons (what is it now, like 3 or 4 genocides?) then it’s really kind of… not great.
edit: to also say that the eredar are essentially responsible for the Warcraft universe’s Original Sin by becoming the mana’ri, which really adds to the growing pile of reasons why the Jewish coding of the draenei s extremely double-edged.
Tbh I’d love some middle eastern/Arabic representation that wasn’t scattered nomadic bandits or friggen wind elementals
I reckon they’re more Byzantine tbh. Titles like Exarch, Prelate and even Anchorite taken directly from Romano-Byzantine influences, in addition to their variant of the church having several unique points of doctrine and no central leader, thus separating them somewhat from the Azerothian Church of the Light, are prime examples of this. I’d also point to their wealth of technology and understanding of ancient history (in their case, an understanding of the very origins of the Burning Legion, whereas knowledge of such things had been all but lost on Azeroth itself) as something very Byzantine-inspired. The Byzantine Empire never suffered a Dark Age, in the way of Medieval Europe. Nor did the Draenei - merely a whole lot of attacks and decline from what they once were, much like the Byzantine Empire itself. Furthermore - their architecture. Look at Shattrath and Auchindoun. Those sweet, sweet domes. Once again, very Byzantine!
Sure, we have the Genedar and Exodar - a reference to Genesis and Exodus in the Bible/Torah. But that’s not exactly enough to make them Jewish-coded, in my opinion. Indeed the Draenei Civilisation inhabiting a new world is not dissimilar to how the “Roman Empire” gradually became more and more centered around Constantinople until such a time as the original Rome was effectively useless and forgotten. The Draenei’s ultimate exodus to Azeroth, and the technology they brought with them, is not dissimilar to the Exodus of Byzantine scholars and citizenry to Western Europe, which was a big part of led to the Renaissance.
Draenei are largely Byzantine coded!
Yeah, you’re not going to find a whole race for that.
Sometimes you’ll see individuals, families, communities that draw clear inspiration from non-white cultures. My favorite example continues to be one shown in novels and hasn’t been seen in-game. The crew of the Wavestrider, in Traveler, includes Duan Phen (I can’t get more specific than East Asian. The names seem to occur, respectively, mostly in China and Cambodia. Thailand’s up there as well.) and Makasa Flintwill, whose mother is Marjani (Swahili name meaning “coral”?), who was captain of the Makemba (appears to be a reference to a Congolese goddess), and also mother to Adashe (Shona for “he loves God”), Amahle (“the beautiful ones” in Zulu) and Akashinga (“the brave ones” in Shona). Makasa was born in Stranglethorn but refers to Strom as the land of her ancestors.
I am of course trusting Google on these names and we should take that with more than a pinch of salt, but I think the intent was clear regardless.
My hope is that we’ll see more of that with the new customizations.
Well for starters, a significant chunk of Byzantine culture involved the Hellenic Jews. Saying that draenei aren’t Jewish-coded, they’re Byzantine, is like saying “that’s a dog, not a canine!” Like, the Byzantine empire was inherently linked to/inclusive of the Jewish people of the era. It was usually oppressive towards the Jews, and notably the draenei are… not oppressive towards anyone.
In addition to such extremely obvious things like the Exodar or Genedar, there are also loads of Jewish and Arabic names among the draenei. Not even Jewish/Arabic inspired, just directly taken from Jewish & Arabic cultures. I’ve forgotten over the years but in some quest text and stuff there are even straight-up Hebrew words used as a filler for the “alien” language.
The Byzantine empire 100% had religious leaders. The various branches of the Ecumenical Patriarchate obviously have… well, a Patriarch, which is still true today of the extant Eastern Orthodoxy. Additionally, the draenei are literally the Chosen People of the Light. That’s pretty explicit, doubly so with the introduction of the Lightforged. ALSO ALSO, Velen is just Moses. Like, straight-up, he’s Alien Moses.
I don’t know what makes this Byzantine specifically because during the Dark Ages essentially everywhere except Western Europe kept on trucking. During the various plagues of the Medieval ages it’s even a known fact that the Jewish and other Middle Eastern groups among Western Europeans didn’t suffer nearly as badly from the illnesses specifically because of the scientific / medical knowledge that had been brought over from The Old Country. You know, like washing your hands. It’s part of why so many Jewish people were persecuted; they were BLAMED for the plagues and etc. That’s not too dissimilar from the way that (Alliance) Azerothians were wary of the draenei at first, thinking they were mana’ri come to finish the job.
“Attacks and declines” IS essentially the definition of the Dark Ages and since the draenei went through that same kind of ordeal, well…
The fall of the Roman empire is typically what people use to describe the beginning of the Dark Ages, which lines up 1:1 with the fall of the eredar empire–or the creating of the Burning Legion, which are basically the same event. The induction of the eredar into the Burning Legion, at least. I guess it technically existed before then depending on which lore you’re looking at.
There are so many different cultures in the general area–encompassing both traditionally Jewish, Arabic, and Roman regions–that using “domes on architecture” as an identifying trait specifically for the Byzantines is a forest-for-trees situation. I don’t think you’d say the blood elves are Byzantine but they have domes as well. As do some dwarven buildings. And Titanic structures. And night elves/naga.
The Eastern Romans never really had an Exodus moment, though. They definitely moved over time, but never in the flood of people that the Jewish groups did. This is also why the draenei story lines up much more cleanly with Jewish history; once the Jews moved into Europe, they faced a lot of persecution. While some areas were relatively OK, Jews became diaspora - the exact same way that the draenei fled the Burning Legion, constantly facing attacks and aggression from their mana’ri brethren, only to eventually end up on Draenor where they faced more attacks from the orcs and other species there.
In terms of science you aren’t entirely wrong but again, the Byzantines did not have a monopoly on moving advanced sciences and arts into Europe. Most famously it was the Islamic world that did that, and ironically it was they who had built upon Greco-Roman ideas, while the Byzantine world kind of just… sat on them, comparatively.
Also, the draenei have a racial bonus to jewelcrafting and are all about jewels and crystals, which is also A Thing from Medieval Jewish culture, since Jews were allowed to manage money and work with gems (and other forms of riches) in ways that Christians were not, thanks to the presiding Church and its harsh restrictions.
But I just want to highlight one minor thing:
Again, this is not entirely wrong but when you even use the word “exodus” to describe it, you are directly referring to something inherently Jewish. Like, that’s why we have that word.
I’m not saying that claims the draenei have Byzantine influence are wrong, but the Jewish influence is more than just a passing reference, to the point that it overwhelms any other “inspiration” for the draenei as a whole.
edit: also this whole thing is a little ehhhh from the start since the concept of “Byzantines” is just a misnomer/pseudo-revisionism from the German wannabes of the HRE
double edit: I also keep thinking of new things to add
Not a great deal more than any other country that had Jewish people in diaspora, I’d argue. Much like many other parts of the world at the time, the Jews were definitely present as a minority people throughout Byzantine History.
Fair enough - don’t actually know any Hebrew so I never picked that one! Neat!
True, but allow me to clarify my meaning here. The Ecumenical Patriarch (and various regional Patriarchs) are considered independent of each other. A first among equals, a position of respect and prestige but not necessarily rulership. None of them have the same level of authority as a Papal figure - who is supposedly the infallible representative of Christ on earth - a notion the eastern church rejects wholeheartedly. I saw this drawing parallels, to an extent, between the Draenei faith and that of the Holy Light in the Eastern Kingdoms, which has a central leading figure - revered not just in Stormwind, but in all human Kingdoms. The Draenei did not acknowledge his authority despite having the same faith, with a few notable differences. That seemed to me like a neat representation of Catholicism vs Eastern Orthodoxy.
Fair point here, he does draw a lot of Moses parallels xD
Sure, but the collapse of the Byzantine Empire did bring with it a lot of eastern literature that was a MAJOR part of what sparked the Renaissance - I see a lot of parallels there in a way. When the last holdings of the Eastern Empire fell, an awful lot of scholars fled to the West, bringing their knowledge with them. It seems comparable to the gradual fall of Draenei civilisation on Draenor, and ultimately the fall of their Second Capital, Shattrath (I reckon Mac’Aree was a bit of a “Rome” while Shattrath can be seen as a “Constantinople” in a loose sense)
Agreed - and the preservation of Roman Society in a smaller, significantly less powerful form - one that is constantly under attack, has big parallels with the fate of the east, of the Byzantines.
Sure, it’s not necessarily the most MAJOR point that indicates a Byzantine theme - as you say, WoW architecture is often unique to WoW, not necessarily the real culture/cultures they’re based on. But I still think it’s another feather in the cap of a Byzantine-influences argument. If you look at Shattrath and Auchindoun, in my opinion, it’s far more remiscient of the Hagia Sofia than Solomon’s Temple, which makes me think the Ancient Hebrew inspiration is less prevalent in this case.
True, but the arts are also a significant factor, probably the most notable Byzantine contribution. You’re correct that the Byzantines had largely sat on their scientific knowledge but the Islamic world had a tendency in many (not all) cases to destroy knowledge that they deemed as Pagan. Which is a big portion of what the Byzantines sat on.
See I’d counter this by saying while the actual two-exodus thing aligns more with Jewish history, the establishing of new civilisations/homelands/capitals is a bit more Byzantine, in a way. The Jewish people were in diaspora, and found pretty much every where through Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. The Draenei, by comparison, once again have a homeland and a capital - and have little to no interest in returning to the Promised Land. Which does, to me, seem reminiscent of the Byzantines largely coming to see Rome and Italy as a bit of a relic of the past - with Constantinople as the true heart of the Roman Empire.
It has those origins but like, you can use the word to refer to other things. The word exodus is used pretty regularly in non-Jewish contexts, so I wouldn’t claim total ownership of it for anyone personally, regardless of the etymology of the word itself.
I personally lean on the other side of the fence - that there’s more Byzantine influences than Jewish ones - though I can see that there’s a lot more Jewish references than I’d actually thought of! It’s important to remember I suppose that coding in fantasy worlds is never 1:1 - the Draenei are a bit of a hodgepodge of influences just like everyone else - and it’s probably better that way.
It’s the generally used and understood word these days, even by dedicated scholars of Byzantine history. Though I agree the term has its origins in being derogatory to the Eastern empire and seeing it as a failed state, which is very, VERY untrue. It’s laughable that the Holy Roman Empire even tried to compare. I’m simply using the most well-known term. Personally I actually do prefer the term “Eastern Roman Empire” but… I just use the one most commonly used in the modern world!
Interesting chat though, I’m quite enjoying this!
Edit: I sorta derailed the op with this though, given that OP’s looking for native American representation in non beast races - not which irl culture most influenced the Draenei - so imma leave it here. Sorry op xD