What Classic+ After WotLK Could Look Like

I for one can’t wait for Classic WotLK but I wouldn’t like to see a Classic Cata come after it. Cata destroyed alot of the old world zones many of us are fond of, changed and removed dungeons we are fond of, and caused me to leave WoW until Legion.

I think if Blizzard were to ever try a Classic+ with an entirely new expansion in the Classic timeline framed as an alternative timeline that diverges from Retail after WotLK they would want something they could build using existing assets from the game.

Now what could we see with an expansion? What If… Cataclysm. Now you may be thinking didn’t this dude just go on a rant of how he hated Cata? Yes I did. But Blizz could reuse large parts of Cata’s assets among others and give us a unique Classic+ expansion of Cata but What If… Deathwing Didn’t emerge causing the Cataclysm. What if in this timeline Deathwing is fighting himself and the corruption and he has some grasps of his sanity left and doesn’t emerge from deepholm and reshape Azeroth, rather he is planning something more destructive with elemental planes waning from the twilight hammer. Where the adventure’s goal is to reinforce the elemental planes then put Deathwing down like a rabbid dog in his lair in deepholm.

The Zones:

  • Gilneas: At the start a phase zone for the Worgen players, Greymanes wall doesn’t fall from the Cataclysm but Forsaken forces are encroaching with plans of attacking Gilneas (Thanks to rebelling lords who Sylvanas has promised Gilneas to them as a Puppet State for the horde) riling up the local feral worgen population. Some of the wall is damaged and feral worgen slip through. Gilneas begins setting up trenches and fortifications on the outskirts of the town. The player character is helping building the encampments and defenses Genn and Liam makes an incognito visit to survey the construction when Feral worgen start attacking and the player character defends Liam but is bitten. Genn not wanting the player character to be killed for his bravery decides to imprison those bitten and direct his top alchemists to devise a cure or treatment to make the bitten not lose there sanity. (This eventually leads to the cure we see in Cata with nelfs). The culmination of the starting zone leads to the Forsaken breaching the wall but a stalemate going on as trench warfare settles in. Leading Genn to send the player character to petition the aid of the Alliance to repel the Forsaken, the Alliance refuses to provide official support with their army after the loses from Northrend but provide aid in weapons and supplies some old guard alliance commanders/soldiers who really hate the horde freely join Gilneas in its plight. The city of Gilneas will be a new capital city and alliance player hub with end game activites for horde and alliance and a new epic battleground as players face the horrors of trench warfare and try to gain every inch.

  • Kezan: The Horde believes Gallywix is betraying goblin neutrality and favoring the alliance. A horde spy has made contact with the player character and promises large rewards for recovering documents about what Gallywix is doing to set up a potential take over. The player goblin finds out Gallywix is helping Deathwing and is a member of the Twilight’s Hammer Cult. The goblin experience starting zone is similar but the island isn’t sinking because of a Cataclysm and uncovering Gallywix’s treachery. The starting zone ends with the horde gaining a foothold, establishing a capital city and Gallywix is hold out in a bunker planning his next move which will lead to a new raid tier leading to the player killing Gallywix and pushing the Twilights Hammer cultists off the island.

  • Vash’jir: The elemental plane of water is weakening and the Earthen ring calls for Alliance and Horde help. While sailing the sea opens up causing the ships to crash on newly drained seafloor (much like Nazjatar so no underwater zone). The quests are similar leading to helping Neptulon who then in the climax of the dungeon gets whisked away by Ozmat. The Bastion of Twilight Raid will be replaced by a Water Throne raid with 4 bosses (and a secret heroic only Boss) Which players Free Neptulon, defeat Ozmat, (and a secret Naga boss fight which the players discover they are on orders of Queen Azshara to disrupt the plane as part of N’Zoths plan) leading to restoring the strength of the elemental plane of water.

  • Uldum: Mostly the same but the culmination is the Throne of Four Winds Raid and restoring Thunderan to his rightful place strengthening the plane of air.

  • Dwarven Highlands (what was the Twilight Highlands): This zone visually doesn’t have the Bastion of Twilight tower, or the cataclysm caused scaring and old god tentacles and maws, but more of its bure state aside from some cultist camps and fortifications closer to Grim Batol. Due to the weakening of the elemental planes this zone has become visable much like Uldum. The twilights hammer cult has infiltrated the Dragonmaw Orcs and Wildhammer Dwarfs into engaging one another so they can continue there experiments in Grim Batol unabated. The alliance and horde both send expeditionary fleets to deal with the tiwlights hammer cult at Grim Batol but first are recruiting the locals and flushing out the cultists that are controlling the conflict in the shadows. As well as gaining the aid of the red dragonflight in the area.

  • Mount Hyjal: The zone visually is not scorched by fire but in a natural state. The story of the zone shifts to preparing for the elemetal plane of fire weakening and eventually appearing in the south of the zone. The story has the Guardians of Hyjal making fortifications to fight back the enemies from the elemental plane of fire when it emerges and keeping it confined to just where the Sulfuron Spire is.

  • Deepholm: The zone is fundamentally changed to where it is endgame zone filled with twilight cultists as there base of operation. Therazane seeing she and her children can no longer hold back the cult on there own see no other option but to contact the Earthen Ring for aid. The players there are gaining trust with Therazane and making a foothold pushing back the cultists to a point of standstill. Leading to the final raid of the expansion Deathwings Fall, where the players and the Earthen ring bolstered by Thunderan, Neptulon, and Therazane push back the remaining cultists in an epic raid which sees Deathwing first fight us in his Dragonic form, then transforms into his Human Visage in a later phase (due to Aspects Help) and the players defeating him ending his insanity.

Tol Barad: Same as it was, just an extra boss to the raid since there will be 4 raid tiers.

The Raids:

  • 1st Tier: Throne of the Four Winds, Throne of Water, and Blackwing Decent. (Throne of Water will re-use the gear from Twilight of Bastion though some gear names will be changed/
  • 2nd Tier: The Firelands: remains unchanged but has us re-strengthening the plane at the end sealing it thwarting Deathwings plans.
  • 3rd Tier: 8 Boss raid, Twilight’s Bunker on Kezan. With some twilight members like Cho’gal, Gallywix, and Sinestra as the final boss. Also Gallywix dies YAY! Rejoice!
  • 4th Tier: Deathwing’s Fall 8 Boss Raid, the culmination of the expansions events leading to the defeat of Deathwing.

The Dungeons: Mostly the same, Except Hour of Twilight isn’t a thing. End Time is reworked to possible end times, Well of Eternity is mostly the same. And we use the caverns of time for more Bronze Dragon like dungeons such as experiencing The Fall of Dalaran were the player character is disguised as scourge and must prevent the Infinite Dragonflight from disrupting the timeline. And with sadness we help kill Archemage Antonidas. No revamp of ZA/GA. Deadmines has a second entrance added preserving the original deadmines instance with a new dungeon called Van’cleefs Revenge where the players thwart Vanessa Vancleef in the same way we did in the Heroic Deadmines in retail.

Dungeon Difficulties: Challenge Mode for existing dungeons; this doesn’t drop loot only badges and points and cosmetic only gear. Players can select the difficult affixes they want at an NPC.

Raid Difficulties: There will be 10 Man and 25 Man Normal/Heroic modes with loot being the same between the same difficulties.

LFR will be added for 25 players and only for Throne of Water, Twilight Bunker, and Deathwings Fall, BUT it does not drop gear at all. It simple drops 1 badge per boss on a weekly lockout for badge gear. Bosses are nerfed down and is mostly so players can enjoy the new raids story via LFR. (In my opinion this is how LFR always should have been, no gear drops, just 1 badge or maybe valor/justice points).

PvP: New Battlegrounds and Epic Battlegrounds. The BG’s that were added in Cata Originally will be there but with a new 40 v 40 Epic BG at the Gilneas Frontline.

Overall If Blizzard was to do a Classic+ I think we could see something like this. They have most of the assets already made which means alot less work for them. It also sets up Classic+ to start with something familiar but with a What If…? scenario which changes the events. If there is no world changing cataclysm Thrall might not have stepped down as Warchief and continues to supervise and teach Garrosh. The Forsken under Sylvanas and her new Valkyr seek to expand there domain into Gilneas under the guise of siding the Rebelling Lords with goals to make Gilneas a puppet state for the horde, not gassing them out and raising them from the dead but “Liberating” them from “Tyranny”.

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The problem with these ideas is that this version of Cata, with the story etc. is too similar to actual Cataclysm.
It’s really the systems and the world and everything that is coming over from WotLKC that’s already been introduced that is the problem.

If Dragonflight doesn’t work, they can just fire the leadership of the WoW project, and start WoW 2 from scratch.

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What Classic+ looks like is Wrath Classic.

Wow Classic+ should be Wrath with transmog and pet battles

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That’s because I figured if Blizzard was going to introduce a Classic + with an alternative timeline they would want to do it with pre-existing assets. That way there it is lower cost compared to making something entirely different. That way there if the community receives it well they can experiment with more alternative timeline that deviates from Retail. And if its poorly received it was a low cost to get it created compared relatively to a new expansion because you have so many pre-existing assets.

It’s a low risk high reward scenario.

Trash take, classic+ should just be a highly improved version of vanilla with new content added, no need for new story, just release raids and dungeons in the zones that we already have like a scarlet crusade raid, feelwood demonic raid, timermaw raid. Retconning lore is stupid and offensive to those playing retail.

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It’s not retconning lore if its an alternate timeline that diverges. We already have Bronze Dragonflight involvement with Classic.

Classic+ occurs in Classic Era, not the retail progression servers.

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I think they should just skip Cata altogether and have Mop be 80-90

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I support this

I agree, but adding these raids is adding story, so technically it’s “new” story.

Players actually do want new story, and new zones.

@Voidarcane
You’re right, if they add content to Classic it is an alternate divering timeline, that would be a good thing.
The Retail story has been so warped by rushed expansions and pressure to produce villains it’s a complete mess.

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I stopped taking you seriously once you started asking for LFR. You want retail with a different story direction. No thank you. Classic+ would be better off starting from a clean slate of an overhauled vanilla with new content, taking inspiration from tbc and wrath while taking out the mistakes (mistakes include flying, LFD, cross realm bgs, etc.)

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As I continued to say LFR would only be for those 3 new raids, only drop 1 badge (or valor/justice points) and not gear. This is because some people will want to try the new raids to see the story.

I do not think cross realm BG’s are a mistake. If we didn’t have cross realm BG’s in classic right now they would be dead content (unless same faction BG’s were a thing).

Alot of player’s, myself included want a Classic+ post WotLK not a Classic+ post Vanilla.

And as for “Wanting retail with a different story direction” my reasoning is Blizzard won’t make entirely brand new content without proof of concept. Reusing alot of Cata assets, dungeons, and raids would be a low cost opportunity. If it fails they didn’t lose that much as majority of the assets are already existing. If it succeeds it signals to Blizz they can work on entirely new expansion and story for a Classic+.

Indeed and an alternate timeline makes sense in lore. Many of times, such as with Garrosh in retail being the worst possible version of himself in other timelines, alternate timelines are brought up thanks to the Bronze Dragonflight. Chromie through Classic promotion material is already involved, such as Classic reveal, you could fit a narrative that we didn’t go back to the One True Timeline (like it or not) but one which diverges after WotLK events.

Which would mean endless possibilities of what Blizzard could produce with the feel of Classic, such as “What If… Cata happened differently” such as how I mentioned in my topic creation. After we could as ourselfs a question of “What If… we didn’t go to MoP but the Dragon Isle After” where Deathwing is defeated and the pathway to the Dragon Isle opens up after. Could even have a fun little crossover Chromie scenario/quests where our Classic Character goes to a Retail like version and they poke fun at the updated character models, how terrible borrowed power, What Sword in Silithus? Just as an idea, sorta like the Deaths of Chromie scenario in Legion.

LFR goes against the classic philosophy is the worst ways imaginable and nobody in the target audience will play if that garbage ever touches the game. LFR isn’t bad only when it’s the current tier, LFR is bad full stop.

Cross realms bgs wouldn’t work with the current server balance outside grobbulus, I don’t support it in current wrath classic servers. This is one reason classic+ from vanilla is better, because it’s a chance to self correct and don’t less servers get screwed up again. Among other things, including no boosts decimating the open world, and a fresh economy with (pipe dream hope) GMs being hired to ban bots on the daily and ban the buyers before the economy gets destroyed again.

Every expansion after vanilla has mistakes sprinkled in that inch us closer to retail. Even tbc has some (flying, welfare epics, shrinking the world by making Azeroth completely obsolete). Vanilla+ should take the gameplay improvements from tbc and wrath while keeping out the systems that gradually screwed up the game.

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Yeah like Blooddrunk is saying- the problem with a post-WotLK Classic+ is that you already have the issues introduced in TBCC and WotLKC-
Flying, extra inactive continents, gear issues, badge systems, higher level cap (and additional unnecessary levelling to do), server imbalance issues etc.

I had this idea about gear scaling for Classic+
Imagine if the raids after Naxxramas, the gear gets harder and harder to obtain so that the difference between a fresh 60 and a post-naxx geared 60 isn’t too extreme. (Vanilla already does this quite well, stat increases per gear tier are small).
So imagine you have to do an increasing amount of crafting, farming, reps, quests to upgrade to Classic+ Tier 7. That would really keep the raiders and crafters busy and prevent them from out-gearing other players too fast.

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I think Classic demonstrates a great example of this with the Dungeon 2.0 (‘tier 0.5’) sets. The questline is masterfully designed to promote dungeon grouping/high-end crafting and offers powerful rewards especially for rogues. Another bonus of doing the questline is unlocking access to all the summonable bosses involved. Their loot is impressive in most cases.

A big reason why I enjoy this quest series is that it keeps preRaid content relevant and offers rewards that can even supercede those found in raids.

I have to confess I actually never did any of the tier 0.5 quests
I never raided Classic Naxxramas either, so I’m not sure exactly what’s involved in getting Tier 3.

It always seemed like an easier option to tag along to a MC run and pick up a full set of T1 in one night.

So much text used to bark up the wrong tree.

What they needed to do after wrath is a totally new MMO.

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