What classes need buffs (11/22/24)

PVP Arenas
1

Dear community and devs,

since its Friday again and we will hopefully see some PvP balancing this time, I just wanted to make sure that you are buffing the right classes.

DK, Monk and DH don’t have a single good DPS spec for high ratings!

Explanation of how data were taken and how to read the tables For each number I used checked-pvp and combined NA and EU ladder. It does compare active class popularity (all players with 1000+ rating) with class representation on high ratings (all players with 2400+ rating), which gives us a rough overview of how the DPS classes are doing.

The spec based table doesn’t has as much value in my opinion and I’am a bit worried that people could misinterpret some values there! That is why I add it with a spoiler tag.

New this time is the popularity column. The lower the popularity is, the more likely it becomes, that a spec is being shown as too good in the table. The higher the popularity, the more likely it becomes a spec is doing better than it seems.

So it is an important column, keep that in mind!!

In the following table, I took the strongest spec of each class for the overall points:

Class strength (DPS):

Class 3s RSS per mille
Feral 19.52 11.4 30.92
Enha 13.56 15.91 29.47
Ele 13.01 16.11 29.12
Rogue 18.09 8.83 26.92
Hunter 12.17 12.99 25.16
Lock 8.01 16.66 24.67
Boomy 10.93 13.52 24.45
Evoker 9.38 13.32 22.7
Priest 7.21 15.49 22.7
SV 11.89 7.65 19.54
Warrior 8.24 8.75 16.99
Mage 7.53 8.15 15.68
Pala 4.6 6.63 11.23
DH 3.56 3.7 7.26
Monk 1.89 3.43 5.32
DK 2.37 1.76 4.13

Spec strength (DPS):
(click on it)

Spec 3s RSS per mille popular
Outlaw 62.02 28.08 90.1 -2.873
Demo 11.32 33.03 44.35 -1.979
BM 16.24 25 41.24 2.458
Feral 19.52 11.4 30.92 2.667
Enha 13.56 15.91 29.47 -1.867
Ele 13.01 16.11 29.12 -0.208
Boomy 10.93 13.52 24.45 -1.399
Affli 8.31 14.73 23.04 2.197
Deva 9.38 13.32 22.7 -0.528
Shadow 7.21 15.49 22.7 2.01
Fury 11.18 11.01 22.19 4.294
Assa 12.41 9.21 21.62 0.387
SV 11.89 7.65 19.54 -2
Arcane 6.46 9.71 16.17 -3.016
Frost 7.91 7.74 15.65 3.328
Fire 3.73 10.45 14.18 -3.439
Destro 3.22 8.5 11.72 -1.889
Ret 4.6 6.63 11.23 2.363
Sub 6.37 2.36 8.73 -0.966
DH 3.56 3.7 7.26 -0.771
Arms 2.09 4.79 6.88 0.358
FDK 3.7 1.78 5.48 -2.192
WW 1.89 3.43 5.32 0.395
UDK 2.01 1.75 3.76 2.379
MM 2.26 0.48 2.74 0.292

Remember, the popularity column is important. See the Explanation in the drop down text above!

As another source of analysis to confirm this data, I wrote a script that gives me the average rating of the top 1% characters of each class. Unfortunately, this is only available for RSS, as the official 3s table only shows 1000 spots regardless of spec. For the class table I took the strongest spec for each class!

Average rating top 1% DPS Class (RSS):

Class Avg_CR Normalized
Rogue 2655 6.1066
Lock 2563 2.4299
Enha 2562 2.3899
Hunter 2553 2.0302
Ele 2543 1.6306
Evoker 2524 0.8712
Boomy 2522 0.7913
Feral 2515 0.5115
Priest 2511 0.3517
Warrior 2504 0.0719
Mage 2464 -1.5267
Pala 2458 -1.7664
SV 2449 -2.1261
Monk 2362 -5.6031
DH 2348 -6.1626
DK 2342 -6.4024

Average rating top 1% Specs (RSS):
(click on it)

Class Avg_CR Normalized
Outlaw 2655 7.8216
Demo 2563 4.0854
Enha 2562 4.0448
BM 2553 3.6793
Affli 2548 3.4763
Ele 2543 3.2732
Deva 2524 2.5016
Boomy 2522 2.4204
Feral 2515 2.1361
Shadow 2511 1.9737
Assa 2509 1.8925
Fury 2504 1.6894
Destro 2472 0.3899
Frost 2464 0.0650
Ret 2458 -0.1787
Arcane 2455 -0.3005
SV 2449 -0.5442
Fire 2447 -0.6254
Arms 2404 -2.3717
WW 2362 -4.0773
DH 2348 -4.6459
FDK 2342 -4.8895
Sub 2320 -5.7830
UDK 2292 -6.9201
MM 2238 -9.1131

Those data clearly show that we need to buff DK (Frost or Unholy), DH (Havoc) and Monk (WW), before doing anything else! About the other specs being on bottom, we need to find out first if its really their spec being so bad, or if just most of that class play the strongest spec.

Last but not least, lets take a quick look at our healer:

Spec 3s RSS per mille popular
Pres Evoker 13.88 8.17 22.05 -2.378
MW Monk 12.34 7.74 20.08 -2.64
Holy Pala 11.1 6.83 17.93 7.068
Disc Priest 8.4 5.39 13.79 15.628
Resto Druid 4.4 2.07 6.47 -4.016
Resto Sham 2.36 2.48 4.84 -3.424
Holy Priest 2.05 0.82 2.87 -10.239

As you can see, Resto Shaman and Resto Druid should be the first to buff, after that Holy Priest need some love, so not every Priest has to play Discipline.

Thank you for your patience and time!

10 Likes
2

bruh if only I had the power of memes to demonstrate to you the closeness with which the devs are monitoring pvp

it’s not super close

1 Like
3

???

4

I second this ???

5

the op’s goal is to make sure each class has a viable spec for that role, so he is not saying that hpriest is better than rdruid or rsham

2 Likes
6

Why buff anything, just bring over performers down in line with others? I’m good on not having DHs and WWs be in every lobby because they got a 5% buff to two abilities.

7

yes I am aware, but that doesn’t mean rsham and rdruid should be buffed “first”

8

Yes

It can have a few dead seasons i dont mind.

9

he has his opinion u have urs, totally fair

10

having an opinion doesn’t mean it’s inherently justified or reasonable; there is absolutely no reason why those two should be buffed first. there isn’t some hidden reason why it has to be in a specific order - buff all 3 at once

1 Like
11

You’re so right.

Giga nerf rdruid and buff hpri/rsham.

Genius

1 Like
12

I love this guys commitment.

1 Like
13

As we all know, hope dies last :wink:

But my sub expires tonight anyways, so this will be my last thread of this kind for quite some time. If we won’t see changes that are directly or indirectly buffing the named specs, I won’t resub. And if some good changes come, we’ll have to wait and see how the ladder develops.

Pretty much what Dicromick said. My previous goal is to make sure every spec has at least one good DPS spec and in case its a hybrid also one viable healer spec.

Disc is pretty good, so Holy Priests can simply spec to Disc and do great. A Rdruid on the other hand can’t just respec to another healer spec. He would need to level and learn a complete new class.

In my opinion they should. Not only because of the reason I already mentioned, but also because we simply don’t know exactly how good or bad Holy Priest is based on the statistic.

Its the same with Fury and Arms. Is the difference between Arms and Fury really that big? Or is Arms fine, but every high rated Warrior simply plays Fury because its still better? Doesn’t matter in the end. As long as Warrior DPS have one good DPS spec, that is fine for now and we should spend our attention to those who don’t have that luxury!

Because its easier to give 5 specs some changes to make them more viable, instead of nerfing the other 20 specs!

The overall balancing isn’t as bad! Its just that some specs can’t enjoy the game and we should make it a bit easier for them.

Beside that they also pay for the game like you do, they wouldn’t rise from C to S tier just because you buff 2 abilities by 5%.

There is in my opinion. You can have for sure another opinion about that, but that is how I think most people can enjoy the game!

1 Like
14

yeah well I think we should develop orphan grinding factors to harvest bone marrow. if you disagree, that’s just your opinion. most people aren’t orphans and most people would be happy having more bone marrow to donate to people who need it!

15

So, it actually does matter.

If rdruids became meta, a lot more players woudl actually shift to arms rather than fury because of sharpen. Fury would still be a better predominant blind pick spec choice, but arms would have more lethal options into specifics matchups.

If we just use the arms/fury arguement, players play fury because hte burden of execution on it is simply easier. On top of this, you don’t really sacrifice any of your utility by playing Fury, have a higher base MS (albeit ramping), and your damage is much more spikey consistently, whereas Arms is more about stun setup slamming people. It’s a different playstyle, and fury is better fitted for the meta.

It’s a fine concept, but the reality is you have hte 2 numbers backwards. If you nerf the 5 overperformers into line with the other 20 specs, the game is fairly good. Balance overall is good outside of the 5 overperformers, and putting everything onto the same level as the 5 overperformers makes the game even MORE unfun.

16

Not only that but it takes more time to buff everything else when you can just nerf a few specs.

17

Marks is actually the worst spec in the game. It’s not a function of BM and marks being close enough to where people just gravitate to BM because it’s easier. Marks is actually really bad and it’s been really bad since approximately 12 hours after 11.0.5.

18

Fire would like a word with you

19

Seems like buffing both at the same time would make a lot of sense. Make fire competitive but also give it back it’s natural predator. Nerf BM out of the meta as well.

20

You can’t buff any mage spec without making it overwhelming into everything else rn.

Purely because hunters exist