A huge chunk of the Forsaken were once living citizens of Lordaeron that took back control of their homeland.
A better question is what could the Alliance offer the Forsaken?
I think the Alliance admitting their faults in BtS and Shaw’s take on Garithos gave this storyline a really good boost in the lore development department. I’m hoping that they can capitalize on this moment. Also, this storyline will need the Forsaken to reinstate a small sect of Desolate Council.
They were only able to take control of the lands that they did because the Alliance provided military assistance to them.
So “fight the Scourge” seems to have been a good thing that the Alliance and the Forsaken could have helped each other with given their shared interest in doing so but Sylvanas decided it was a better idea to make even more enemies by betraying the Alliance and initiating a two front war with the Scourge on one flank and the Alliance on the other.
Sighhhh
I’m talking about the real Alliance, not the racist piece of crap part that people are fist pumping about. At least the current in-game Alliance characters seems to believe that the Forsaken killing him was better than what he deserved.
Sheeshhh.
I’m glad that we’re deciding that if a faction or organization was led by a leader who would end up being an unpopular screwup that tarnished the factions reputation then that retroactively nullifies the very legitimacy of that organization in its entirety. Because that means that the Horde didn’t exist from WotLK through to BfA and that the Forsaken never legitimately existed since TFT until Shadowlands.
Turns out the Scarlets did nothing wrong by attacking the Forsaken huh, they were just trying to stop the Jailer from winning, right?
The Alliance did nothing wrong by sinking that Goblin ship either. After all, it wasn’t being run by the real Bilgewater Cartel, it was being run by that crazy slaver Gallywix.
It’s especially rich to hear these mind-numbing assertions that betraying Garithos didn’t count as betraying the Alliance because Garithos was a bad actor from the same people who will screech bloody murder about Genn’s attack on Sylvanas in Legion and how it was an act of war against the Horde.
Even though Sylvanas at the time was in the exact same position as Garithos, ie “bad actor with political power that they had only dubiously earned”
You’re the only one talking about “legitimacy” while everyone else including in game characters are happy that the racist piece of crap is dead. The racist piece of crap of despicable human made legitimate deal no one is denying that.
Now can we move on to deals/offers that are possibly made in good faith by non racist dead pieces of crap Alliance members or are we still not fist pumping and dancing on Garithos grave? As the ingame Alliance seemingly does.
Edit:
The Alliance now seem to recognize their faults and are willing to move forward with reconnecting with the Forsaken. Garithos is dead and gone everyone is happy he is dead, no one and I mean not a single person is sad that the Forsaken killed him, breaking a deal.
None of your three paragraphs actually address my point, which is that your logic of “person’s historical reputation is terrible, therefore their actions or inactions and what they represented are no longer valid,” if applied consistently, works both ways.
In fact, it nullifies the very premise of your thread, which was that “Alliance humans hate the Forsaken” when by literally the exact same standards you’re applying here, I can say that any mistreatment of the Forsaken in the past is irrelevant and doesn’t constitute a meaningful offense because Sylvanas was in charge of the Forsaken and she is now recognized as an enemy of reality as we know it.
Heck, we can even go further and apply your same exact logic to whitewash the Scarlet Crusade. Their campaigns against the Forsaken are retroactively justified by Sylvanas’ now tarnished reputation. Who cares about the Scarlets fanatically butchering innocents? Those innocents served an omnicidal nutcase plotting the downfall of reality.
(Note for slow people: I’m not saying that the Scarlet Crusade was good. I’m demonstrating that Deathisfinal’s logic is flawed and can be applied to reach self-evidently wrong conclusions)
I didn’t even bring up Varimathras. lol the Forsaken have been responsible for attempting to initiate two separate apocalypses in the span of a single decade but THAT doesn’t retroactively justify punitive actions against them while Garithos saying “wretched animals” once and Shaw saying he didn’t like him are apparently sufficient to strip him and his soldiers of any kind of representative legitimacy even to the point where mass murdering them doesn’t even count as a crime.
Edit: Wait a minute, Sylvanas also enabled Azshara to summon N’zoth. THREE apocalypses initiated by the actions of the Forsaken. Aw shucks.
I agreed with you, that it was a legitimate deal by a very racist and despicable human. We can talk legitimacy if that’s what you really want to talk about.
Some one asked a question about what can the Forsaken offer Alliance, I replied with “what can the Alliance offer the Forsaken” you brought up Garithos.
He’s dead and the only Alliance member to recognize his death believes that the Forsaken killing him is more than what he deserves.
Your problem is you’re holding this racist piece of crap deal on a pedestal. The Alliance does not, nor should we. If you’re actually wanting to contribute something substantial I would focus on were the story could go with the Alliance finally coming around.
I brought up the fact that the Forsaken were only able to secure the lands that they did via external military assistance, specifically the assistance provided by Garithos and his Alliance forces and that it therefore stands to reason that the Forsaken could have used more Alliance military assistance since they had already worked together for a major operation and both the Forsaken and the Alliance had a shared interest in destroying the Scourge presence in the Eastern Kingdoms.
But the Forsaken themselves cut off this avenue of cooperation when they demonstrated their willingness to betray any allies the moment they cease to be useful. The Alliance had plenty to offer the Forsaken and had demonstrated both the value of what they could offer and their ability to deliver on what they could offer. The Forsaken rejected that possibility and in doing so, simply made themselves more enemies.
It was a jaw-droppingly short sighted move on Sylvanas’ part to do this that she doesn’t get anywhere near enough flak for, especially since its long term consequences (making an enemy of the Alliance) ultimately led to the Forsaken’s downfall in BfA.
I’m not holding him up on a pedestal, I’m acknowledging that he existed and was a high ranking member of the Alliance, and that his interactions with others in that capacity had consequences for everyone involved. I’m no more holding him up on a pedestal than simply watching a playthrough of the TFT Undead Campaign is holding him up on a pedestal.
If anything, it’s you holding him up on a pedestal because you seem to think that he and he alone would inevitably be the sole defining feature of relations between the Alliance and the Forsaken even though if the Forsaken had just waited a bit for things to calm down Garithos would almost certainly have ended up having his power taken away by the re-established Alliance presence.
Meh…
You hold a deal made by a racist piece of crap higher than I do, higher than the Alliance itself does.
He should have been pulled back to the rear for more “anti-racist” training, instead of leading and making deals.
Funny that you use the word “offer”
But the Alliance turned away from them. All we had to offer them were names - deader, rotters. - Anduin
We forgive you Alliance 
Edit:
I don’t give two crap about him, nor does the Alliance. I was actually so happy when he was killed in WC3. You’re the one that brought him up as a person that represents what the Alliance has to offer, a racist turd.
Not sure about the wording. Does it mean “he can” or “he could”? Playing with time and all that.
Are you asking about the timeframe? If so, I assume we are talking about some time after the Forsaken reclaimed their homeland from the most racist person in game.
I guess this is going to be your new “hey guys look Sylvanas has been absolved of all her wrongdoing because her eyes turned blue” thing, where you just repeat the same thing over and over again in the hopes that it will become true via normalization?
He’s a racist, and everyone is glad he’s dead. There is nothing more to talk about. Let’s move on shall we?
Garithos coming out on top in that scenario probably wouldn’t have resulted in him initiating or attempting to initiate 3 separate apocalypses over the next decade the way that Sylvanas coming out on top did. I’d rather have a petty racist hold onto a sliver of power before it’s inevitably taken away from him when the adults arrive than having an omnicidal supervillain hold uncontested power.
I asked some folks in the Maw what their opinions on Garithos’ problematic rhetoric vis-a-vis non-humans were and if their current fate is better or worse than a racist controlling a city for a little while but I couldn’t get a straight answer because they wouldn’t stop screaming.
Edit: Come to think of it it’s actually kind of messed up that Shaw would be so dismissive of Garithos in light of everything that Sylvanas has done. Especially given his job as a Secret Agent Man which doesn’t place a particularly high priority on ethics versus effectiveness.
Unless SI:7 agents are vetted to ensure that they only operate in accordance with the most honorable standards of conduct which I guess explains why they suck at their jobs.
Hey Matthias, Garithos retook Dalaran from the Scourge all on his own, which is what allowed us to travel to Northrend and ultimately defeat the Lich King.
Meanwhile the Alliance has lost like 4 major capitals to surprise Horde attacks that you failed to predict. Methinks you shouldn’t be throwing so much shade.
Well … Traitor versus racist. Who would you prefer to work with?
In the summary of a racist: violent behavior towards everyone except people; the priority of the interests of one’s own race over those of others; paranoia (?) in relation to working with enemies of one’s own race; survived trauma due to the fault of another race (two or more); male.
In the summary of a traitor: traitor; psychic (mentally?) defective; female.
Who died among Sylvanas’ relatives through the fault of orcs, trolls, undead?
Yes, probably about the timing. What could the Alliance have at that time? Part of the Alliance sailed to Kalimdor (Jaina), a small part escaped to the gorges (first chapter of TFT), some were isolated from the whole world (Gilneas), some are dead (Dalaran), some are killing their own kind (Scourge), some escaped (Blood Elves; not so that they were in it before RoC, but still). What’s with the others?
I’m obviously not at all about that human/Alliance supremacy. So I’d side with the traitor. There’s not a single thing that could be said that makes Garithos the lesser evil.
Or, you know, neither is an option. Because they’re both equally evil.