Thinking about leveling a rogue. What are rogues good at these days? AoE? Single target? mostly a M+ class or do they have raid uses?
Haven’t really paid that close of attention to rogues in years, but I’m feeling the itch. What’s the current raid and/or M+ specs?
I raid with Assassination and PvP with Subtlety. I don’ do M+ so I have no opinion.
it’s barely adequate for m+, and i say that as an outlaw-only player. it’s basically trolling to play outlaw in keys at the moment. hopefully the buff helps us but I’m not holding my breath.
Consistent and reliable damage profile. In M+ we don’t need to worry about stacking our CDs for pressure points.
Outlaw performs quite well in low cleave situations. Sub performs very well at 5+ targets.
While our hard interrupts cost resources, and therefore DPS, and we lack an AOE stun, we do have a ton of them available. A rogue is incredibly useful on the third boss of Uldaman for example.
Atrophic 3% damage reduction is also very under appreciated since everyone seems to forget, or even be unaware we even bring it.
Vanish can also good at cheesing a few boss mechanics. Crippling poison is also an underrated utility. Especially as sub on spiteful weeks.
I wouldn’t agree that they’re just “barely adequate” as the above post suggests, but until we get a good rework, we are being out performed by a few other classes unfortunately.
Rogues are more than adequate for all content. The problem is most pugs want the OP meta specs. That’s where rogues get a bad reputation. We’re not the top dogs in any category but we are “adequate” and can get the job done.
The problem with the rogue class as a whole is that we bring no meaningful utility while just being “ok” at damage.
If you think about it, as far as PVE is concerned, there is really no reason to bring a rogue to a raid or even M+ assuming equal skill/gear level.
I am playing either Outlaw and Sub. Sub is great for M+ and okay for raid but it has one of the worst mobility specs in the game. Sub is less mobile than Paladins and Sin is the only specs that can take all the mobility and utility. Outlaw is just tankier and more mobility than Sub, this allows you play greedier and waste less globals. Outlaw can have enough energy on defensive on mechanics but damage is just bit inferior to Sub.
If you want to feel truly useless in a raid, play any rogue specs on Sarkareth. Sarkareth is basically the perfect fight for Rogue to deal the least damage possible. Random downtime, free haste that is synced with cooldowns, low burst damage and unable to do both AoE / ST in a build. Then you might need to go down an extra time to bait the soak.
Rogues are in a frustratingly bad spot right now. I’ve played rogue main exclusively since vanilla (off and on) and don’t remember a time in recent history where we have all three specs in the lower to bottom end of the DPS classes.
Hybrid classes bring way more utility, outshine us in dps, and seem to get far more attention from the devs. We’ve really been left in the dark this expansion (no pun intended).
It’s to the point where I’ve started playing a warlock main for the first time ever and have benched my rogue for the time being. Feels terrible.
I miss the days of “hybrid tax” and when rogues actually brought something to the table.
Sneaking around, peeing in your Cheerios.
“I used to beat everyone! Now I can’t beat anyone!”
Um…
We can unlock locked boxes?
Rogues are an excellent choice for Afflicted weeks. Jus’ kiddin’
We’re simply fine, but there are dramatically better options up and down our “niche” these days, especially with full-tilt Aug running wild. Our class is probably one of the more developmentally scaffolded and subject to player bias because it was first-in-class for a long, bygone past of the game, and folks generally can’t unsee it. Our abilities are routinely microhotfixed within the first week of prog. Players will take you along for a pug if they already have lust, can’t find anyone else, and/or want to luxuriate in Atrophic Poison’s -3.6% DR. If they decline your group invite, they’re also assuming that Rogues are OP in whatever content they turned you down for. For a variety of reasons, this season is particularly egregious for boxing us out of LFG.
That said, we have B+ utility/survivability/mobility (most of which we need to live pulls), so you can make a difference if you know what you’re doing. Kidney is unarguably one of the better stuns in the game. Also, cooldownless stealth and being able to zip through mobs and quest objectives in world content feels great - that much is unerring at least. For now. There’s plenty to like if you don’t look around at everyone else while they’re playing with full damage, full utility, full survivability, and total role mobility.
rogues are amazing but we dont bring any raid utility other than aoe stealth. would be nice to see them move the tricks talent out of pvp to pve so that you can add least add a damage buff to someone.
no one wants us anymore because we dont have much team utility in raid/m+ content. but i love rogue 
I’m pretty good at running away.
i destroy on rogue.
no one cares about me until i blow all my timers… most get frustrated and run away. lol
Shadow sight being very heavy this expansion is rough but yeah, shroud is limited. Atrophic was a nice gesture at least but def think all poisons just need to be back on the table again.
Smoke bomb being thrown back into all content would be nice again as well to Save healers for a moment or a tank.
Shroud feels outclassed by mind soothe this season, agree with a ton of shadow sight.
A lot of our disruption comes at the cost of resources, and negatively impacts our damage output. A kidney punch costs us combo points and a global. It’s incredibly punishing to use in M+. Compare that to HoJ, it’s just a global.
We bring nothing to interact with afflicted. Incorp we can blind every other set and kick/kidney the one in the next set. Not spamable interaction at range like a mage. Again, you’re wasting globals and combo points PLUS potentially moving to the target to interact with it.
Gouge is going to cost you energy and a global, and is a minor disruption that you’ll only occasionally use.
Sub feels good in M+, but the bleed spread feels weird until you get used to the positioning on the pull. It’s also not great with tricks because when you’re spreading bleeds instead of popping aoe, you’re hamstringing one of your utility spells.
The DR is irrelevant for atrophic, in almost the entirety of what this player base is running the ability that kills you is a mechanic you should have avoided. It adds up over the course of a dungeon but it isn’t a game changer. You literally don’t even realize it’s impact until you check meters.
Mobility for sub is probably the best of any melee spec and between evasion and cloak you can ignore half a dungeon’s mechanics. So that’s nice.
I’m on my out the door but wish I could +1 the points in this post more than a simple sentence, but yeah, this. My only nudge would be that we’re not as unarguably topmost mobility royalty these days. Other melee got a lot of movement love heading into DF, comparatively.
Rogues are good at fun solo play.
In a group? We’ll see after the rework.
im pretty hard to kill if no one locks me down.