Not very experienced with Vanilla so I’m curious what numbers DPS are going to put out and what to expect.
What would be an average DPS be doing as a fresh 60 with dungeon gear?
What about after getting raid gear?
Seen some numbers thrown around in that Ret thread that they could do 1600 while others said rogues could even get to 2k. But I’d imagine that’s late game maxed.
There are so many factors that it’s hard to really say. A lot of it depends on consumables and raid buffs, and also how much threat your tank is pulling. The duration of fights is also very important, because then classes like warriors absolutely steal the show.
It’s really too hard a question to answer at this point because it varies so much.
Ya I understand all the intricacies that would play into it like fight duration, single vs multi, aggro and Mana management but just looking for any general rule of thumb.
Like is 500 dps average or garbage?
Assuming you’re a pure DPS class…
Going into MC with decent dungeon gear you’ll probably be capable of around 200-400 DPS. By the time you get to Naxx you’re probably going to be around 700+ DPS. With full Naxx gear most pure DPS classes are capable of 1000+ DPS.
That sounds pretty high. There are certain fights where your DPS goes through the roof such as Vaelestraz and Thaddius. Maybe those fights are what they’re thinking of.
The PS numbers might give you some idea, but since the boss armor and resistances are wackadoodle on PS… they can only give relational information and even that is suspect in some ways. (resist vs armor mitigation).
If you’re producing enough DPS where you’re threat capped, you’re great. Just don’t go over.
yeah Warlock… lol
500 raid buffed in dungeon blues is pretty bad, unless your tank is bad or undergeared (which is more likely).
For reference, in Nihilum’s World First Kel’thuzad kill (the first kill of the last boss in Vanilla), the top 3 rogues on their DPS meter seem to be doing about 1.8k with the ZG and Rend Blackhand buffs. They are losing a lot of DPS time because they have to spread out and not be in melee range of the boss. It is believable that they could be doing maybe 2.3k or so on a Patchwerk fight because their main tank has Thunderfury and may be able to keep up on threat.
So that would probably be the upper, upper limit in best cast scenario for a normal fight.
Largely depends on your class. Not trying to start a “classic vs retail” argument but the raw dps difference between the specs is pretty drastic in classic. A warrior in Naxx gear will have so much more “potential” dps than a moonkin for example. A moonkin dealing 700 dps may be playing optimally (Well as optimally as you can be pressing starfire repeatedly) while a warrior is dealing 1000 and delaying his Bloodthirsts (playing suboptimally.)
TL:DR there isn’t a good answer unless you provide specifics. I.E a mage in MC with pre raid blues/greens.
Moahr DOTS!!!
“500 raid buffed in dungeon blues is pretty bad…”
Wrong. You will NOT see anyone in dungeon blues doing that high on a single target boss - not even close. Expect your first rag kill to have two waves of spawns and your top dps (mage/warlocks) to be low 200’s for the fight on Rag.
Once you get better gear, the numbers will climb. Lots of RNG. By the time you mostly have BWL on farm single target fury warriors that know their stuff will be 600-800’ish. My lock pulled aggro on Ebonroc around the 2/3 point doing 800’ish - had a string of big 3k+ crits (mega RNG) and I was not holding back. That was with every world buff possible (except song flower that had dropped off), flasked, etc. Dead lock and a pissed off RL - but it made for many jokes for months to come.
In AQ40 top dps will be near 1k single target (fury wars really starting showing their epeen). We never made it into Naxx but I heard almost 2k for top dps that were Heavy in Naxx with all buffs.
I personally think that dps sims from private servers will not be parallel with Classic. Time will tell.
World buffs say hi. Saying that 500 with full buffs is bad is a hyperbole, but saying that your first rag kill will take two sons phases is just as ridiculous. As long as people are geared with pre-raid bis and consumed up, getting even 1 submerge would be pushing it, let alone two submerge phases.
I’ve seen fury wars pushing 500 in blues. Sunders + Curse of Recklessness + Faerie Fire + Annihilator = 3995 armor gone. You’re practically ignoring armor at that point, and full consumes+world buffs massively boost melee DPS. Also “dungeon blues” is usually pre-raid BiS items like Dal’Rends, devilsaur set etc. rather than the dungeon sets.
My recollection is that casting a high-rank Curse of Recklessness on a raid boss meant your tank got 1-shot, because they did not use the same AP formulas that players did.
Perhaps this is another thing that private servers got wrong.
Bosses definitely have a different AP formula, because Demo Shout reduces their damage output significantly. The catch is that demoralizing roar/shout reduce the Boss’ AP by more than CoR would. It still increases the boss’ damage but it doesn’t have that big of an effect. The tank shouldn’t be getting 1-shot if they’re properly blocking stuff and geared correctly.
CoR AP Increase: 90
Demo roar AP decrease: 130, 182 if talented
Demo shout AP decrease: 140, 196 if talented
This is probably true but applying Curse of weakness basically counters the AP gain and leaves them with armor negative.It is 2 debuff slots though.
I had forgotten Demo Shout existed, because I’m smart.
Hm. I wonder if that’s actually a contributing factor to the whole ‘DPS tank’ private server meta. I’ve never believed that the idea of DW tanking a boss on progression was at all reasonable, I wonder if demo shout is reducing damage by too much.
(There do seem to be a LOT of debuff slots being used up in this theorycrafting, though.)
DW tanking is usually only done on bosses that are less heavy on tank damage/heavier on raid damage like Loatheb. Think of it as a feral tank on steroids. Squishier but pumps out even more threat.
Yeah, I just…I don’t believe it.
Even on those kinds of bosses, I outright do not believe that it is a worthwhile tradeoff on progression in any properly-balanced server. That was the thing that made me go from ‘maybe private servers are close’ to ‘private server data is so unbelievable it can’t possibly be used as a reference, even if it’s close some of the time’.