These devs are ridiculous for moving this post all I gotta say is they better balance the game better then SL if they are gonna do such a ridiculous move. Signed my guild mates who had to deal with being 3 of the worst specs for a YEAR.
31 Likes
15s will still drop mythic raid loot, what’s the problem?
8 Likes
Might swap main to My old WW monk. Least I know I’ll climb to 20s then xD
or what?
7 Likes
Do you know anything new?
Afaik 20s will have the new max I’ll instead of 15s.
1 Like
All 36 specs can easily time 20s.
15 Likes
So, it is about the gear then after all?
All you M+ defenders that say you run M+ for fun are basically just a bunch of fibbers. You run M+ because you’re getting raid level loot without that hassle of raiding.
I thought people would be happy that now they will be rewarded for progressing higher in M+.
30 Likes
Prior to this change, anyone running higher than a +15 was doing it for fun because there was no loot benefit.
I think people have always argued that the accessibility of M+, the smaller time requirement, and the smaller group size have made it superior to raiding. Also, M+ has been out for 6 years…we are no longer getting “raid level loot” we are getting end-game level loot.
13 Likes
Gonna have a temper tantrum on the floor of Blizzard HQ 
8 Likes
That is the thing though, most people aren’t pushing past 15s. How many people are just doing them for the gear?
This is my biggest beef with M+. They had to throw a ton of great rewards at the system, because at the end of the day the content is boring.
This is why people are complaining about having to do 20s now. If it was fun content, you would see a lot more positive threads on the forums happy that M+ is getting more progression.
16 Likes
Wow is slowly turning in to EA sports game. They wanna focus more on tournaments, events. Stuff that brings money.
11 Likes
Interesting argument. I would be willing to bet that raiding also wouldn’t stand on its own without rewarding loot. I mean, that’s a major part of RPG and MMO game design.
I mean, nothing is more fun than wiping on a 15-minute boss fight, resetting for 10 minutes, and then doing that over and over again hundreds of times…especially if you were only doing it for an achievement nobody would care about.
14 Likes
They don’t actually.
You have to do 16s to get Mythic Raid ilvl.
You know what’s fun? Not feeling like I’m being held back because I choose not to raid.
I M+ for fun, and I will have more fun by not needing to raid. Very simple.
21 Likes
This is the typical rebuttal to my argument, but raiding gets new content on a regular basis, M+ does not.
This is why I think we see so many whining threads on the forums, because people don’t want that content to be any harder, because it is boring content.
This is why Blizz is rotating the dungeons at least and changing out some of the loot drops.
They need to just make more dungeons in my opinion.
2 Likes
I like the change to 20’s, but it will make it much more important to play a good spec. We all know that some specs will fall behind and be left there for the entire expansion. The new talents are going to be a balance nightmare.
3 Likes
I obviously do not speak for everyone, but I would argue that people don’t want M+ to become harder because it was the one static end-game system that was actually approachable by everyone.
Most players were never going to get high arena ratings or clear the raid on mythic…but they could achieve the highest rewards possible in M+. And now that’s gone.
10 Likes
That’s kinda literally the goal of end-game. Even leveling, the goal is to get to max level to get the best gear.
The item levels for the loot have also been increased… This is ACTUALLY a good change as long as they do not overtune the dungeons.
4 Likes
Good.
I’m glad that welfare Andys aren’t weighing down the M+ system anymore. When I look at Arena back in BC and how quick they were to put meaningful rating requirements on PvP gear to prevent the proliferation of welfare gear into PvE, I was kind of stumped how long it took Blizzard to get around to putting up a meaningful barrier and saying “these rewards are for players who do well and these rewards are for the rest”.
Blizzard is much more free to introduce greater rewards after raising the difficulty for getting the maximum rewards… which is the exact thing that has happened in DF, allowing high-end M+ to reach much closer to parity to M+. Now, M+ is essentially its own path and its own pillar and not just paid lip-service as such.
4 Likes
I get what you’re saying here, but I think the developers are trying to address the fact that everyone is getting great gear by bypassing a huge part of the end game.
I mean, I’m still flabbergasted that dungeon content is giving rewards that are on par with Mythic raiding. It is no wonder people don’t want this content to be harder.
1 Like