I haven’t really played slayer but colossus feels pretty good right now. I’m clearing delves way quicker than I was before. That being said, the new warbreaker animation is odd to say the least.
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Arms is Arms, still a fun spec nothing really changed to it playstyle wise outside of having a couple of talents becoming more valuable due to the reshuffle of power from overpower’s MS buff to the baseline MS itself.
While it is nice that we’ve finally got our stam node in an earlier section of the class tree, it’s also brough up some negatives as it is a lot more restrictive points wise though which I’m not too happy about.
We’ve got next to stuff all free points in the 2nd rung of the tree when it comes to AoE situations and the 3rd and final section has all 11 points locked into DPS nodes in the 3rd rung with no chance of backtracking for utility or QoL from earlier parts of the tree. Which is a design failure imo as build diversity is next to non existent comparing to every other class in the game.
There needs to be a drastic shift from overloading our class tree with mandatory dps nodes, cutting half out would be a good start.
I find this mildly amusing as it’s the exact same playstyle that was present last tier for Colossus (which was fun af then too), nothing has changed in it’s button pressing at all except for Execute procs/phase no longer providing additional CDR to Demolish which feels off.
Pretty certain delves got nerfed heavily just like M+ did going into 11.1.
I just did a T11 as Arms earlier today with next to no regard for even stopping enemy casts or even cheesing the health potion stacks to prolong the healing from Brann.
Mistakes that were former one shots tickled by comparison.
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I only really PVP and it seems like it’s mostly the same. Demolish crits seem to hit a little harder than before but I’m taking it all with a large grain of salt until we get S2 honor gear at least. I don’t see any of us taking Dragon Charge. I tried it for the few use cases that I could think of but the loss of heroic leap made for a horrible experience. Maybe I’m just not creative enough? It is another interrupt. I’m not crazy about the change to sharpen blade; the loss of control of when it’s applied makes it more of a passive ability since I’m not about to restrict Warbreaker usage but at least it feels less bad to switch it out for something else, so that’s something. I haven’t tried out the change to war banner but that one seems really good albeit with a fairly high talent commitment/requirement.
Oh and I forgot to mention, its weird to see so many arms warriors now! Welcome back, boys!
PvP side seems weird right now, i know it’s pre season and all so we’re just in the previous tier sets but the fact that Slam of all things hits harder than Execute is a piss up and a half due to the PvP modifiers from last season that were added to slam and the fact that there are still so many negative modifiers added to Arms talents in general.
Just something I noticed when I was forced into the PvP mods while in Warmode.
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CM not gaining stacks from execute anymore already gave me the impression that they’re expecting us to start moving away from it. I haven’t found it to be a problem but I’m definitely not going to make any conclusions about pvp during the pre season.
The change to Execute not giving stacks for Colossus feels really bad. I can never get to max stacks before the ability comes off cooldown anymore.
Purely Colossus Arms M+ perspective here, and probably a minority opinion, but I largely… dislike where we’ve arrived per the recent changes, honestly?
The class talent changes are fine, to be clear. But the tuning and how it has affected which spec talents we typically actually take, especially pre-tierset? Ehhhh.
I feel like two points serve as particularly good examples here:
- %AP distribution
and - CPM distribution
Let’s start with the first, under typical talents.
Under Crushing Force, Fervor of Battle, Practiced Strikes, Barbaric Training, and without Critical Thinking 2/2 (and factoring in hidden Arms %dmg multipliers on each skill)…
- Mortal Strike does 716.9% AP for 30 Rage. (23.9 APR)
- Slam does 317% AP for 20 Rage. (15.9 APR)
- Cleave does 261.3% AP per target and a total of 578.3% against its main target (839.6% across two targets). ([13.1n + 15.9] APR at 2+ targets.)
- Execute does up to 514% AP for up to 36 Rage. (14.3 APR)
- Executioner’s Precision itself does 251% AP flat, per 18 to 36 effective Rage cost, making Execute most Rage-efficient at “20” Rage. (Providing up to 12.8 extra APR.)
- This means that at its most Rage efficient, nearly as much of Execute’s damage comes from Executioner’s Precision (251% AP) as from Execute itself (257% AP).
All that may sound innocuous… but it means that with Executioner’s Precision a 40-Rage Execute (765% AP for 36 Rage) is now barely 34% more Rage-efficient than Slam (317% AP for 20 Rage), and without it, Slam is 12% more Rage-efficient than Execute. And what’s more, even with Executioner’s Precision and without Exhilarating Blows, Execute barely breaks even with Mortal Strike itself. With EB, the chance of skipping a would-be filler Slam then means you don’t even use Execute over MS.
While overflow still keeps Execute relevant even without EP, this still leaves base Execute objectively pathetic… all because they decided the best way to buff Arms was to gigabuff only a couple rotationals, ignoring breakpoints in the balance previously between them, and then to balance Execute around the fallout. …Why?
Due to weapon scaling on Mortal Strike, Executioner’s Precision’s value via MS can actually exceed Execute’s direct damage even prior to Martial Prowess multiplicity. As my weapon is well above my average item level on my Warrior, 35% of my Mortal Strike actually exceeds half the max damage of Execute, since my Mortal Strike hits for 48% more than Execute’s max damage. It also means that EP is worth it only if Rage is overflowing or I’m using Execute at under 23 Rage.
Moreover, if running Fatality, then Mortal Strike and Cleave each deal 82.8% AP more per target, provided you can use at least one Execute on each enemy they might inflict with Fatal Mark. This pushes priority even further away from Execute, putting even a three-target Cleave (1577% during Sweeping Strikes) at higher priority than a Sweeping Strikes EP-Execute (1401%).
The CPM aspect is worse, though. Because Mortal Strike is so powerful now, it’s actually optimal for a Colossus Warrior in M+ to take both Exhilarating Blows and Battlelord despite their anti-synergy. And the result feels slapstick. You have virtually no time for anything but Mortal Strike, Cleave, and Overpower. Despite being a previously infrequent rotational ‘nuke’ of sorts, Mortal Strike now frequently makes up over 45% of GCD casts in single-target even if counting GCD-CDs.
…Mortal Mortal Mortal Overpower Mortal Mortal Overpower Mortal Mortal…
The only variation is that Overpower (normally 66.3% of an Mortal Strike’s damage when including Dreadnaught and Martial Prowess) takes priority over Mortal Strike if it would otherwise overcap (the 20% chance of Mortal Strike reset being wasted and risking a single GCD that is not MS or Overpower otherwise putting Mortal Strike priority ahead of Overpower’s).
Since BfA’s Corruption-wrought Whirlwind-filler spam for big ToM’s and rapid Anger Management CDR, I can’t think of any time Arms has been spammier or felt more conceptually jank.
Aside: I guess the one upside to all this, though, is that Dance of Death might (?) finally be takeable despite its only synergizing with Unhinged at 2 stacks/occurences, as might Fatality (at effectively an average of 10% [a little over 7% over time since it doesn’t work below 30% hp] of a Mortal Strike extra per target per Mortal/Cleave)? Which should be interesting, maybe, if nothing else?
- Or, that might be the case, if not for (A) Fatality still meaning by “high chance” of proc… a measly 8% or so and (B) the aforementioned wasted stacks on Dance of Death, since Unhinged only hits 0|1|1 extra time at 1|2|3 stacks and is generally under tuned especially when Execute hits for squat and given that Fatality can’t be collected at low HP, making the bonus damage on Ravager kill go to waste unless there are mobs with extremely low max HP. v.v
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What I’d like to see at minimum for Arms atm…
- Reinforced Plates changed to increase Armor only and made just 1 point. Extra Stamina baselined via initial Class/Spec passive(s).
- Crushing Force removed and the added damage baselined; Bitter Immunity moved into its place.
- Rallying Cry now duplicates a further 30% of your maximum health to be split among self and all affected allies.
- Seismic Reverberation / Concussive Blows replaced with Berserker Shout / Piercing Howl. Barbaric Training / Sidearm replaced with a choice node of…
- Shattering Throw (45s CD, now chargable up to 1.5 seconds to deal greater damage and knockback, and is able to purge magic immunities after 1s of charge once per 3 minutes [locked via debuff]) and
- Headhunter (which now replaces Heroic Throw with Headhunt while charges of the latter are available, usable oGCD from melee range and dealing hugely increased damage and 50% splash from HT range; recharged per 30s with a chance on auto-attack or Heroic Throw to gain another; 3 charges max).
- Execute’s own direct damage increased by ~20%, siphoned from Executioner’s Precision (or by having it deal bonus direct damage scaled only by Martial Prowess), Slayer’s Strike, Marked for Execution, and Thorim’s Might as necessary.
- Execute should be more damage efficient than Slam even before accounting for its Rage-refunds, Executioner’s Precision, or Hero Talents; at present, Slam is about a quarter more Rage-efficient in that circumstance.
- All effects based on Rage spent now use skills’ original cost for contribution, rather than the reduced actual cost.
- This avoids unintuitive punishment for cost reductions and keeps things far tidier.
- Arms/Prot Juggernaut reworked to ramp far faster, even if a given contribution naturally and unavoidably then falls off.
- Say, 0.5% Execute damage per Rage spent on Execute in the last 10 seconds, to a max of a 50% damage bonus — therefore ramping quickly, but hard to maximize and having fairly great synergy with Haste and burst Rage generation or cost-nullification.
- Any further damage loss compensated for with aura buffs. With Execute un-neutered, there’s little to no need to change up Arms’ damage distribution.
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I agree with alot of you, but, the thing about “Rage Efficiency” is almost a moot point. Why you may ask? Because after 20% to 25% Haste, Rage Efficiency doesnt matter anymore. You are gonna be Rage Capped after your first run through of your rotation, unless you are in a PvP Envirnoment. But, the game isnt built to PvP standards. 90% of the time you are waiting for GCD’s to come off of cooldown or for big hitting primary abilities to come off of cooldown. Good Pacing? Well, no. But it is better than not having Rage to push a button. Execute is almost a wasted ability now, unless, you are specced for it in Slayer. Colossus could really care less about Execute. Its ok, but no ideal, it just makes Mastery more appealling for Colossus. Slam is good. It has its problems but overall its a good filler. There is nothing wrong with an OK filler.
I think Colossus is in a pretty good spot. Is it perfect? No, its not. I am glad that they gave us more battle impact with some buffs. My only gripe so far is still with Sweeping Strikes being on a Global Cooldown. I still dont understand that.
At present, yes. But there’s a difference between the thematic issue of a 40-Rage execute hitting for only a third more than your Slam in many builds and trying to thereby solve a class-wide resource conundrum.
- And, sure, I’d agree that there is nothing wrong with having a good filler. I do think there’s something wrong with the more constrained filler being, in itself, weaker than the less constrained filler, though. To have Execute “barely worth having on one’s bars” is a bad thing if, from all we can gleam of developer perspectives, it’s still supposed to be, let one when most long-time players would rather it be. That says much about the Mortal Strike’s tuning and Executioner’s Precision’s consequent portion of total Execute damage per GCD, too, rather than just that total contribution per GCD, but the issue remains.
Even if we do try to address that larger resource disparity, though, there’s still no necessary ultimatum by which we must choose either occasional starvation on one hand or overflow on the other. (And no, that’s not because of Haste. Haste increases rate of expenditure almost exactly as fast increases rate of generation.)
Legion and even WotLK Arms also saw occasional periods of Rage too great pre-Execute to spend it with GCDs alone. That never meant, however, that it was impossible to spend. oGCDs were our traditional means.
If we’re not going to un-neuter Execute’s own damage, for instance, we may as well spread its ability to handle overflow (all it’s good for without Executioner’s Precision or Slayer talents, as Slam then becomes more efficient than it) over any health value, having it take that role from old-FoB-Whirlwind. Doing so could even allow for more interest to be placed in Slam itself as it needn’t be limited to the role of a pure filler (since another would supplement it). I.e., it’d offer overflow options at diminishing returns, giving us reason for our Rage without so tremendously changing our balance of ST / 2-target to AoE capacity (especially given the absurdities of present MS / Cleave damage).
- Whirlwind, if decoupled from Cleave, could offer the same for AoE.
Tbf, though, if our Rage generation is no longer intended to constrain uptime (and especially if many would prefer it didn’t anyways), I’d also be happy to rehaul (Arms’) Rage altogether in favor of a resource that’s, say, generally not spent on GCDs (just as already seen on Prot and Fury) – instead tending to enhance or capitalize upon them.
Fury would have its Rampage and, who knows, maybe even something that offers a modicum of rotational variance for ST vs AoE beyond just a more obligatory rate of filler use. For Arms, maybe we would be able to choose between resource-draining stances (each perhaps with their own capitalizing direct spender) that allow for the likes of Flowing Strikes (primarily meant for cleave, but offering setup even into ST and finer control over skill rhythms), Piercing Strikes (open up setup for either other technique and sometimes capitalizing upon Flowing Strikes), or Vicious Blows (bursting / immediately suppressive, primarily meant for ST or taking advantage of funnel, but offering setup into a large Warbreaker or Demolish), or the like. For Warrior, a variable Revenge (cost still nullifiable) and Execute, and its many defensives. /shrug
At the moment my only gripe with arms is bladestorms lacking damage and whirlwind being there… for some reason.
The other major thing i would kind of like to see them do is swap out ms/overpower resets for colossus smash resets again. These all go beyond just a 11.1 thing, but it’s all I can really think about that bothers me, atm.
I have to admit, I absolutely do not want to see that (except perhaps as a not-quite-optimal capstone).
If survivor/RNG-blessed bias puts the best Arms parses under such a build, that’s fine. Outlaw exists, after all. But I don’t want to be forced to take it.
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Unfun spec: Crap gameplay, outdated skills, weak capstones, button bloat, resource problems and lame animations
But it does decent damage so most people who are fine with numbers are ok with it
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I’m having a lot of fun when I’m not fighting ww and hunter
That is your opinion, that is different from my opinion.
ur opinion is just wrong
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Opinions cannot be wrong about the subjectivity of the fun oneself can have, you goober
I guess getting a high rate means you put your head up your own butt too.
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Im not a goober >:(
nah ive always enjoyed the overall gameplay for arms, its fun to hit big numbers
Again, that sounds like your opinion, which is different from mine, gameplay overall for arms to me is crap.
Honestly I’m hoping that never comes back to the spec ever again. Having your cooldown randomly reset is just awful as you either make the spec broken and entirely reliant on a slot machine feature as opposed to providing actual depth in the gameplay.
Gameplay? Pretty fun.
Outdated Skills? Where?
Weak Capstones? The only one I can think of is Fatality, and all that needs is an additional modifier update so it’s useful to take for prolonged encounters.
Button Bloat? LOL what? There’s next to no bloat in the spec at all, or do you want to just spam your ST rotation in AoE too.
Resource Problems? Honestly doesn’t really feel that way as Colossus, Slayer has a little more trouble due to it’s additional free SD proc activations, but this is easily fixed by adding variable rage dumps for ST and AoE pre execute phase where both builds feel like they actually able to dump their rage.
Lame Animations? The only thing I could agree to a certain extent. The Warbreaker update next patch is salvagable but could use some work still, it’s gone from awful to just alright. As for the rest of the combat animations/stances could do with an entire overhaul to provide some unique fighting styles to warrior vs other classes allowing for weapons to dictate stances / animation sets something along the lines of Swords, Axes/Maces, Staves/Polearms providing 3 different animation sets which you can decide on which is shown based on what you xmog into showcasing Arms being the “master of martial weapons”.
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