We're not making enough noise about layering

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

Its NOT permanent so stop.

Neither are the login issues…

So why should your argument supposedly fly against complaints about layering, but not against early overcrowdedness?

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

No, I want to shout down people who make up crazy stories, lest those crazy stories take hold and continue to be spread.

Like “THE SERVERS WILL BE UNPLAYABLE WITHOUT LAYERING OMG!!” ?

You are spreading false rumors in an attempt to poison a necessary mechanic

Necessary?

Howso necessary? People keep saying “Layering will only be there for phase 1, it’s not a big deal.”

But that exact same argument goes for the issues that any sort of overcrowdedness brings. It’s temporary, it’ll pass. There’s certainly no NECESSITY to ‘fix’ anything.

People who actually want classic have waited for years. Waiting another couple of weeks for login issues to subside isn’t going to deter them.

3k layers are more authentic than putting 1000 people in Elwynn Forest at once.

1000 people in a starting zone is pretty authentic for a launch experience, I would argue.

Certainly don’t see why a few weeks of inconvenience would warrant the time and money investment of such a newly developed mechanic.

None of your “fears” are grounded and you’re just scaremongering.

Right back at literally every argument that goes “Omg the login ques and server crashes and dead servers omg!”

[Derpcontrol-frostmourne]

Personally i’d prefer queue times, crucially painful leveling times due to overpopulation, all those pains etc. Because it’s a real, tangible community that you get to experience.

[Sadhguri-kelthuzad]

Same. It may be an experience that brings both it’s upsides, and downsides (like waiting times at the start, and unstable realms if there aren’t enough players), but it’s the experience that resembles the old game the most.
And that vanilla specific experience is one i’d love to have again, as weird as that may sound given the tools Blizzard has nowadays to prevent it’s worse sides from happening lol.

But to me even stuff like a chaotic launch and uncertainty about what people will do with their realm choices is part of that old game. So is the server structure, as it stands out as a defining key feature of vanilla/classic compared to it’s successors, which all have interconnected worlds in bite sizes to accommodate as many players as easily as possible.

But as we’ve seen it comes at the expense of the World/community factor, which is so prominent and involving in the old game! It’s a sense of immersion you can’t get anywhere else anymore it seems nowadays, which makes Classic so exciting for me, because it will bring this back.
If it weren’t for this enchanting world + community feeling, i would’ve given up trying to make it through all the challenges that presented themselves during leveling, because i was so bad lol… but the other, same adventurers who were there everyday struggling with me kept me going, because by running into each other over and over again we ended up becoming friends sooner or later

I’m not in a rush. I’ve waited a long time for Classic to even happen, so waiting in a big queue isn’t gonna be an issue for me. If my realm becomes low pop, i’ll either stay or use a transfer depending on what i’m up to do!

[Velquez-moon-guard]

And you just pop by every single “remove layering” thread to brown-nose blizz some more.

I honestly think half of you folks work for blizz because no one in their right mind would want layering in vanilla.

LOL got’em. I’m surprised Eloraell didn’t comment on my thread earlier tbh, in all the other ones they are in the first 5 posters. They must work for Blizzard for sure because what person in their right mind hungrily browses the forums at all times of the day looking to attack anything that goes against Blizzard or anything they are doing.

[Celessi-turalyon]

People are also missing the fact that this is a new system that they are still improving upon. This is a beta, so don’t take what is currently being experienced as what we are going to see when the game releases

Are we talking about the Heart of Azeroth and Azerite Gear? Or terrible classes? Or the GCD mess that is still plaguing the feel of combat? Or scaling and how it’s turned leveling in the game into abject misery? Or the missing CoT and Kara portals?

I mean where would anyone get the idea that they need to shout to the heavens because Blizzard is only in Beta…

Azerite gear: Not a bug
Class desing: not a bug
Scaling: not a bug

That’s a lot of your problem, is this idea that because you don’t like something, Blizzard should take it out of the game. While they listen to feedback, they already decided on these things and were putting them in. Stuff doesn’t have to be removed because some kids in a beta don’t like it, even though other people do. You’re not the only opinion that matters in WoW.

[Celessi-turalyon]

Right back at literally every argument that goes “Omg the login ques and server crashes and dead servers omg!”

Well there’s 15 years of evidence to support that claim, and absolutely 0 to support the side against layering. So there’s that.

[ßøøðøø-blackrock (ßøøðøø)]

If you don’t like it Then go play on a private server if you want your “authentic” experience.

[Wickess-emerald-dream]

Look, if you want to convince yourself, against all available evidence, that Blizz wont remove layering then fine; worry about that to your hearts content.

What evidence? History has shown that they’ll just change their mind and keep it in or add it back in later.

[Eloraell-moon-guard]

But that exact same argument goes for the issues that any sort of overcrowdedness brings

Layering is not a Gameplay change. Its a solution to the greater problem of player perception and external queues. It doesn’t stop overcrowding, because you would not have 9000 people without layering. You’d either have game damaging queues, or far too many servers to have viable populations in a few months.

People who actually want classic have waited for years. Waiting another couple of weeks for login issues to subside isn’t going to deter them.

Fine. Wait until layering has ended, before playing then. If waiting is fine, and you do it, then we won’t have as many layers and they’ll go away faster.

1000 people in a starting zone is pretty authentic for a launch experience, I would argue.

Then you’d be wrong. There has never been 1000 people in Elwynn Forest. You’re claiming that a full third of the server on day one all chose to be humans. Not a third of the Alliance. A third of the server. 66% of the Alliance players chose to be human.

Find me a single server where the population consists of anything even close to that, and maybe you’ll have a case. In reality, you’re delusional on that point. There has never been 1000 people in Elwynn Forest during any server’s launch without raising population caps to inauthentic levels. Your argument is not only invalid, but is shows a distinct lack of actually being able to reason out reality, and leans toward you wanting to change the game to be more Private Server and less Vanilla.

Right back at literally every argument that goes “Omg the login ques and server crashes and dead servers omg!”

Layering has nothing to do with server crashes. It increases the number of people on the server, not decreases it.

As for queues and dead servers, they are the fulcrum of the issue at hand. If you could prove somehow that no-one would ever quit the game, you might have an argument.

crucially painful leveling times due to overpopulation

This is not a thing and was never a thing in Vanilla. It simply doesn’t and didn’t exist and people repeating it either weren’t there, or are intentionally misrepresenting it.

it’s the experience that resembles the old game the most.

The longest queue I ever experienced was in TBC with 5000 people and 4 hours. Unless Blizzard decides to deploy 100+ servers, you’re going to be looking at queues in the 50k range. Its not “authentic”, its peverse masochism.

I’m not in a rush. I’ve waited a long time for Classic to even happen, so waiting in a big queue isn’t gonna be an issue for me. If my realm becomes low pop, i’ll either stay or use a transfer depending on what i’m up to do!

If you wait until layering is gone, you’ll be helping those queues disperse faster, so if waiting isn’t a problem, give it three weeks after launch. If not, you are contributing to the problem you claim doesn’t exist.

They must work for Blizzard for sure because what person in their right mind hungrily browses the forums at all times of the day looking to attack anything that goes against Blizzard or anything they are doing.

People who can think past their own navel and understand that there’s more to the long term stability of the game than how fast you can get to 60 or how long you feel you should be stuck in a queue?

History has shown that they’ll just change their mind and keep it in or add it back in later.

History has also shown that games which under-prepare for crowds at launch suffer catastrophic failures. Kinda like WoW struggled with in Vanilla and TBC…

[Nesano-the-scryers]

So, why don’t they just have a metric ton of servers and merge them as they need to?

[Priapis-proudmoore (Priapis)]

Would you be happy if you were on one of those merged servers and had to change your characters name because of such?
What about the community that developed prior? no one would necessarily know who was who anymore.

[Blays-bloodhoof]

Stuff doesn’t have to be removed because some kids in a beta don’t like it,

Nope. Just a Hail Mary change on an “expansion saving patch” as a desperate attempt to keep the cash cow mooing from life-support.

Ding Sub Mount is up. Everybody drool.

[Nesano-the-scryers]

Ah, character name conflicts. Forgot about that.

[Crunch-malfurion]

If they do no layering, we’ll all be leveling at the same time with thousands of us just trying to kill one boar. And then a lot of people would complain, including people who keep protesting layering. They would be asking for a solution for this and then boom, back at square one. Layering IMO doesn’t seem too bad to use for a little bit, but if it’s permanent then I would have a problem.

[Ryzix-dragonmaw]

Must be I guess. I mean I started with stuff like Neverwinter Nights, Gemstone III, Merdian 59, The Realm Online, Grendal’s Cave, and later EQ/AO/DAoC.

Even 15 years later I still consider WoW a newer MMO… lol. By the time WoW came out I’d already been playing MUDs and MMO’s for a decade.

[Xephtar-khazgoroth]

If they do no layering, we’ll all be leveling at the same time with thousands of us just trying to kill one boar. And then a lot of people would complain, including people who keep protesting layering. They would be asking for a solution for this and then boom, back at square one. Layering IMO doesn’t seem too bad to use for a little bit, but if it’s permanent then I would have a problem.

This comment again?
Servers are being kept at the original release populations(once layering is removed)… We dealt with it back in 2004, we can deal with it in 2019…
Lets just remove layering. Shock horror… you may spend an extra 30 - 90 mins to reach level 15 then people disburse.
Maths to support no layering:
Standard distribution assumed amongst horde and alliance and races:
Server size of 2500 players
2500 / 2 = 1250 people per faction
1250 / 4 = 312 people per race
Orc and Troll starting area + Dwarf and Gnome starting area will have 625 people the others will have 312.
Remember that some will move to the front of the pack and will then move onto a different quest line with different mobs.
Its not that bad. REMOVE LAYERING!!!

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

Well there’s 15 years of evidence to support that claim, and absolutely 0 to support the side against layering. So there’s that.

And?

Pretty sure WoW has survived it each and every time. So what’s the issue here?

[Tyándra-moon-guard (Tyándra)]

You’d either have game damaging queues, or far too many servers to have viable populations in a few months.

Proof?

Or are you just predicting the future?

Fine. Wait until layering has ended, before playing then. If waiting is fine, and you do it, then we won’t have as many layers and they’ll go away faster.

You realize that this is not an argument in favor of layering, right?

If the argument for both is “Just wait a couple of weeks before playing”, then why even bother putting in this mechanic in the first place?

There has never been 1000 people in Elwynn Forest. You’re claiming that a full third of the server on day one all chose to be humans.

I didn’t - YOU’RE claiming that that will happen.

Find me a single server where the population consists of anything even close to that, and maybe you’ll have a case. In reality, you’re delusional on that point. There has never been 1000 people in Elwynn Forest during any server’s launch without raising population caps to inauthentic levels.

Oohhh, I see. I’m delusional for claiming that starting zones being overpopulated is an authentic launch experience, but you fearmongering and claiming there WILL be 1000 people in Elwynn without layering, is totally not delusional at all.

You literally jumped on me using a number from YOUR example.

You’re being quite ridiculous.

Your argument is not only invalid,

That’s rich coming from the person who made up a number to use as an argument, and relies on random predictions as arguments.

but is shows a distinct lack of actually being able to reason out reality

My perception of reality is quite different from yours, I will grant you that. But that doesn’t mean I’m the one who is wrong. Religious fanatics also tend to think they have a monopoly on the truth about reality.

and leans toward you wanting to change the game to be more Private Server and less Vanilla.

What?

YOU are the one who wants to see the game changed with layering. Are you completely retarded?

If you could prove somehow that no-one would ever quit the game, you might have an argument.

If you could PROVE that 75% (or whatever number) will quit, YOU would have an argument for layering.

But you don’t. You magically fished that number out of your behind and expect it to fly.

[Heidene-kelthuzad]

My perception of reality is quite different from yours, I will grant you that. But that doesn’t mean I’m the one who is wrong. Religious fanatics also tend to think they have a monopoly on the truth about reality.

He/she also said my perception of reality was the wrong kind of perception. Interesting. Coincidentally i also argue against layering. Hmm…

I can acknowledge their perspective, but disagree with it. I’ve had a couple of people who argue for layering come around and say that we may disagree, and that’s fine as we got different perspectives.

Yet he/she can’t even acknowledge the argument on a basic level, or the poster, and instead resorts to petty name calling instead, trying to make it seem like those disagreeing aren’t living in reality, cause it’s not the one that agrees with their opinion.

Who’s the real < insert any demeaning words used by him/her here > ?
The projection sure is real.