Well, fellow Restos... I guess we are stuck like this

Classes Druid
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So tuning pass after tuning pass and upcoming patch notes -theres nothing to address our mana issues and complete lack of burst in raids.

So, go get your Amalgam’s Spine out of BRH since it’s our mana bandaid now and make sure your Tranqs arent counted in the healer CD rotation, since its main value is CD reduction. Assign healing NPCs to the REAL raid healers

Always remember we are GG LEET in the minigame so all of the above is acceptable.

Disclaimer: this is my opinion and I’m allowed to have it despite other folks personal experiences. If you have cracked to code on resto and are a tree jesus - please share your logs with the class.

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For the majority of the last 20 years it was well understood that you couldn’t recklessly stack haste at the expense of all other stats and not suffer severe consequences such as mana problems. This is basic stuff we’re talking about here.

Then we had TWO SEASONS where mana was more plentiful. People started stacking more haste, because all of a sudden they could get away with it.

Now, the game has returned closer to where it was before. Except, tons of players are in denial, latching onto the idea that the game must be broken because they can’t run the same level of haste that they got away with during the first two seasons of Dragonflight.

I mean seriously… How can you sit there trying to run ~6000 haste, confused about why you are having mana issues? This isn’t rocket science folks.

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Haste has everything to do with its interaction between it and Lux Soil and the free extra rejuvs it provides. More ticks = more free rejuvs = more mana savings. Also free extra hot ticks.

Haste doesnt decrease the duration of our hots. Its squeezes more ticks in, which is a healing increase.

QE live has Rdruids stacking haste to 45% or so.

Explain how haste is costing more mana if its NOT reducing the duration of hots and we arent spamming regrowth.

Also, I’ll ask again… show me your logs! I want to see your theory in action. Stop hiding behind an alt.

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Luxuriant Soil has been around in various forms for multiple expansions now. People made it work just fine without stacking 35%+ haste.

It also recently saw a big nerf in terms of it’s proc rate, so if the procs are your main reason for going all-in on haste, perhaps it’s time to re-evaluate that.

Spamming rejuv until you’re OOM and then pointing to the few free procs you got as justification for that expenditure seems a bit backward…

Spreading a thin layer of rejuvs out across the raid also completely fails to take advantage of the most potent, almost game-breaking mechanic we have available to us right now - the fact that there is no cap on mastery stacks.

I never claimed that Haste decreased the duration. Crit, Vers, and Mastery also all provide healing increases that are more potent per-spell than Haste.

In M+, with smaller groups and shorter encounters, it’s still possible to get away with more Haste in certain situations. It’s why so many of the people having mana problems in raids are also saying that they are doing fine in M+.

Really?

Spells cost mana.

Haste allows you to cast more spells.

Casting more spells costs more mana.

Ironically, increased Regrowth usage (in conjunction with Clearcast procs, Nature’s swiftness, and Innervate) is more viable than ever since it’s possible to have a very high clearcast proc rate and even bank a 2nd clearcast proc. It’s fully possible to have Regrowth be one of your top spells without actually spending any mana on Regrowth. As a bonus, if you spam Regrowth during Innervate, clearcast procs aren’t used, creating a situation where every regrowth cast during innervate benefits from the 30% buff that you get from Flash of Clarity, turning innervate into an extremely potent (and mana free) throughput cooldown.

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Show us the logs then! If every single resource and guide is saying one thing and you are doing the opposite successfully then lets see the receipts. Like seriously, you keep posting and making claims without backing it up with data.

Why do you keep hiding behind an alt and arguing? If you want me to see things your way - show me the data!

I dont think I’m being unreasonable here.

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You shouldn’t have to look at logs to understand why too much Haste can cause mana issues. Posting logs turns threads into off-topic battles of nit-picking and chest-thumping. I’m not interested in playing that game especially when giving out such basic and obvious advice.

Most guides aren’t re-written at the beginning of every season, especially toward the end of an expansion. We’re still early in Season 3 and unsurprisingly most guides still contain content that was written with the first two seasons in mind.

Wowhead Resto Druid guide was last updated November 7th, before Season 3 even began.
QE Live still shows their Resto Druid guide as being for 10.1.7
Icy Veins Resto Druid guide has only seen two minor updates during Season 3, the most recent of which dates back to November.

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I’ll tell you what… you don’t even have to post your own logs. Go into WCL and find a log with someone successfully and competitively playing a similiar stat prio and talent build in raid as you and post it.

You gotta give me something more. You are asking me to believe a point of view that goes against common knowledge without data to back it up. If there’s data to back up your claims - I’ll go change my spec and stats before raid next week and try it.

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I only really raid and do world content and I am really unhappy with how resto is playing right now. I dont like the Grove Guardians or having to build around them because of the tier set. When doing Fyrakk I feel nearly useless, especially in the healing adds phase. I hate having to keep lifebloom on myself all the time. It feels like I really just balance my time making sure efflo is up, lifebloom is up, a grove guardian is up, and watching for 2-4 times a fight when I can ramp and then I spend the rest of the time trying to hit clearcast regrowths - everyhing is just based on a timer or a proc and not necessarily whats actually happening in my raid. Ive been playing Resto since BC and this is the first time I can honestly say I just hate it. Id rather be back to nourish spamming or rejuv spamming. Why am I the only healer that has to watch mana like a hawk?

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Oops wrong char.

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Funny enough on H Fyrakk prog tonight I went with double LB for more CC procs. Fishing for procs is awful but at least I wasnt oom by p2.

I miss having a good raid CD.

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Resto druid feels awful in raids to play. Just let me go back to spammjng nourish or rejuv and thats it. Ty. :cloud_with_rain:

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You get 50 rejuvs . Not counting mana regen or trinkets. We are the only class forced to use a mana trinket

150,000 / 3000 = 50

Just wild . Time to go back to cod

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You don’t have a clue how to play or gear this spec, as you have made abundantly clear in other threads. Stop pretending to be an authority while spouting objectively incorrect information.

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Yeah, i dont get Gnr either. I cant tell if they are a very elaborate troll that just hates resto druids or very misinformed. Every single post i have ever seen them make has been the polar opposite of what every druid in the dreamgrove discord will tell you, the polar opposite of what is written in guides, the polar opposite of what high end druids pushing content are doing. Is he doing it on purpose because he hates druids? Why dieant he ever post on main? Questions of the era.

Also we have been stacking haste since our classes inception. The reason haste wasnt always the best stat above others in the past wasnt because of mana, it was because if you reached certain haste breakpoints you got extra ticks from hots before they expired, so you went for a good breakpoint and then stacked mastery.

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And then in a fit of irony blizzard changes my character to an alt i havent played since selling cmodes in mop. This whole character system on the forums needs to go.

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From what i gathered is that he is an AOTC raider who has been an R Druid since Vanilla and does his own thing with his spec like running VE in S1…

I dont think he cares what the guides say or what the numbers show. He is going to do his own thing. Maybe he is trying to reduce the amount of buttons to hit, maybe he wants to bring back the R4 Healing Touch days… who knows

My hubby is the same way on his rogue, the only difference is that he doesn’t try to offer advice because he KNOWS that he is playing suboptimally.

I dont have the privilege of playing suboptimally… my raid likes standing in fire too much.

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U saying this as if it matters? Are those rejuvs gonna heal the npcs in time? No? So that means u gotta regrowth esp in pugs which I do. Your idea doesn’t work in real time. :cloud_with_rain:

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What are these numbers meant to represent? It sounds from context like you’re saying that’s our mana pool and the cost of rejuv, but neither is the right number, so I’m confused.

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Yeah, theres a lot of dooming going on. Dont get me wrong, Resto is in one of the worst states its been in, but its not unplayable garbage. You have natural mana regen during the fight so realistically you have about 50% more mana to cast spells with as whatever your ui displays, not even counting mana enchants, of which you should be running at least the spellthread for. On top of that, master shapeshifter and amalgams spine return a lot of mana. Amalvams regurlarly gives me anywhere from 80k to 120k extra mana, and master shapeshifter, when i used it for prog, gave me 60-80k. Ill probably be using it for frrak when i get there, but ive been doing fine with livliness up to smoldy for now.

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To be completely clear, I’m not saying resto is unplayable garbage. But it’s clearly far weaker than some other healers (and probably the weakest healer overall, when comparing the full kit of each spec).

If we run a mana trinket, we’re fine enough for the first 6 for sure. Though, it’s important to remember that no other healer needs a mana trinket to help bandaid an obvious deficiency in current tuning. But the longer the fight runs, the harder it is to justify bringing us, particularly considering how cracked mistweaver and disc are right now at the healing profiles needed in the last few fights this tier (all without having to hardly think about mana).

I don’t think Master Shapeshifter is a solution to our mana problem either. I haven’t run MS on a prog fight at this point, but the downtime doesn’t seem worth the minor mana gain to me.

Just looking at your Nymue kill from the 20th (the first log I see from you where you ran it), and it only gave you about 1/3 as much as Amalgam’s. It gave you 40,000 mana total. To get that, you cast 16 wraths. Those 16 wraths cost you 8,000 mana, so you got 32,000 net mana, in exchange for 16 globals (plus however many times you shifted to moonkin form to cast them). I don’t think that the juice was worth the squeeze there, particularly since your feral druid didn’t cast an innervate the whole fight, despite being talented into it. Your boomkin only cast one of two possible ones also. Each of your innervates saved you more than 32,000 mana (47k and 37k, respectively). So one innervate from another druid would have allowed you to finish the fight with more mana and take Liveliness, an objectively better talent for throughput.

If you have large periods of downtime, I can see MS being worthwhile, but I don’t see that being the case very often in raid, and with the shapeshifting GCD penalty, I’m not a fan of the talent overall.

Everything is basically whatever until the last couple bosses–those are the only bosses that matter. I just don’t think it’s a coincidence that 50 Mythic Fyrakk kills into the tier, 0 resto druids have a kill.

Maybe you and I will get CE on our druids without any class tuning. But if we do, it will be because our groups are willing to play sub-optimally and the other healers in our group are good enough to make up for our deficiencies. I’m parallel gearing a disc priest in case it’s not viable to stay on druid for Fyrakk.

Worth noting that I’m a long term druid player. I play it through ups and downs, and this is the first time in multiple expansions that I have seriously doubted whether the spec is viable for the hardest content.