The Alex quest serves no narrative purpose though. It adds nothing to the overall plot
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I donāt think so either, kind of proven that they now removed it, though Iām kind of shocked it even went as far as the PTR given how obsessive Blizzard has been recently about trying to clean up their image by removing anything that could be construed as sexually offensive ingame. It honestly feels like someone wrote the quest who just didnāt really get the full context.
Though I donāt really get what the issue with the Amber Kearnen quest is. Seems fine enough for Warcraft for me.
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Yeah, Iām kinda wondering if theyāve internally retconned it without really making it clear to the players. I did check the section in chronicles and thereās way more emphasis on her being used to control the dragons, and in my reading her laying eggs came as an unexpected occurence to the orcs that they took advantage of, nothing indicating them forcing it.
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Iām glad WoWhead does not buy this timeline crap either.
Iād like to apologize for the ravings here. Though frankly Iāve been pretty forthcoming about recovering from a trauma induced mental breakdown, suicide attempt, and now Iām on meds youāre really not supposed to drink on but tell that to my decision making skills.
But I do find that comparison akin to PETA tier lunacy. Where they compare slaughterhouses to Auschwitz or Seaworld to Antebellum slave plantations. Yeah in the loosest possible terms I guess something similar is happening. But if you want to compare millions of men, women and children to cows and fish donāt do it when youāre in armās reach of me.
Because I donāt grant dragons personhood.
Because if we do, this game just became extraordinarily weird, extraordinarily fast.
Since now the most iconic original raid of WoW is a story about massacaring dozens of infants in front of their mother, before murdering her, beheading her, and parading her severed head through the streets to the cheers of a grateful nation.
And yeah Onxyia is certainly a bad mujer. But I cannot imagine a more cruel and unusual punishment.
So are dragons people or are they weird monstrous reptillians we are obliged to exterminate?
Because they canāt be both.
And thatās my final thought on this topic. I think their big monsters to be ridden when friendly and destroyed when troublesome.
If you think otherwise, fine. But I donāt, wonāt, and fundamentally reject that idea regardless of your feelings on the matter.
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I think the really big problem is that the story has jumped from being monstrous reptiles into being people as the game progressed and they havenāt addressed the massive tonal shift that brings to older content when viewed through the new story. Especially when we revisit those stories in game now.
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Why not? Or ratherā¦ they can be and are both. They literally have a humanoid form and a draconic form.
They have their own language and communicate with us in our various languages. They appear as us, and often times blend in amongst us unless they wish to make their Draconic presence known.
Fish and Cows donāt masquerade as people and communicate in Humanoid languages IRLā¦ but these fictional WoW dragons do have those traits in Warcraft.
OK, I think your attempts at denying the lore are odd, but I donāt have to reject your opinion, the freakin story rejects it when ever the Dragons turn into people.
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Eh, not really. Again, she is technically trying to change something that is suppose to happen in the āfutureā. Which, is basically something we all do everytime! For all intent and purposes the only time anomalies anyone should be concerned about is the āpastā because our āpastā is suppose to be unmutable.
Eh, w/e, mods canāt tell sarcasm.
There will always be a Murozond. There will always be an infinite dragonflight, thanks to alternate timelines. (We literally see this in the next patch, since there is an Infinite version of Chromie) She just wants to ensure that the Nozdormu she knows doesnāt turn.
So ultimately nothing will change, but sheāll get to keep her aspect as he is now, and not lose him to a malevolent force and then have to kill him.
Itād be funny if it was building up to the twist that the timeline will course correct if it has to and the paradox of preventing Murozondās creation corrupts her in his place.
Itās been like this from the start. And yeah, while the infamous Leeroy Jenkins room of dragon babies is part of that tonal bizarreness, WoW dragons ultimately fall under the same umbrella of humanizing monsters that the modern horde is supposed to appeal to.
You even like this concept for the forsaken specifically.
Are they people? Are they zombies? Yes.
Youāve gushed about this dichotomy yourself in the past, how a forsaken can go from eating brains one moment to bibbing himself off and enjoying a nice cup of tea to wash down the slurry he just sucked up. And then thereās the dramatic angles as well, where you talked about your forsaken priest desperately praying to the light to save an orc childās life and suffering living hell in the process because your character was NOT going to let one more innocent die, etc.
WoW unfortunately took longer to really cultivate that for the dragons, even though theyāve been sapient from the start.
But on top of that, itās actually kinda normal for people to empathize with non-human characters in fiction, especially when fantasy heavily relies on using species as clumsy analogies to race and similar things like that.
As an aside regarding the dragon babies bit, that actually plays into Wrathionās origin story. He was literally Frankensteined together from untainted bits of multiple baby corpses because Rheastrasza, his ācreatorā, was trying to create an uncorrupted black dragon.
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We brought the plagued corn from Andorhal. We aided Arthas to massacre Stratholme. Hell we pave the way for the Horde invasion on Azeroth when we protected Medivh from the infinite dragons.
But this is where you draw the line? Just because she was a popular quest giver for the alliance? If I would quit over a single happening of these I would have left this game the moment Saurfang Jr died.
Itās a good thing you are not writing the lore and thus your take on what dragons are is irrelevant when the story has moved on from WC2 and has stated differently several times.
You are wrong. Simple as.
This whole conversation is kind of funny also because of the elephant in the room that no one is addressing:
If dragons are not people (apparently), then what should we make out of Jaina and Kalecās relationship? It was referenced as recently as Before the Storm, soā¦
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Dragons are not human beings, theyāre not āpeopleā in that sense.
However they are also not animals driven only by simple thought processes and instinct. Theyāre extremely intelligent beings that even at their youngest, are immensely powerful. Not that it matters ultimately because even if someone were to make the argument that āDragons are animals, therefor this whole SA āthingā doesnāt apply.ā that ignores the fundamental reality that SA can happen to animals too, caused both by humans and other animals.
The point I was trying to illustrate is that this entire argument hinges on the dumbest, most obtuse of technicalities that is also completely irrelevant to the definition of SA, as you put it.
They are people dude lmao. They literally speak and are given character arcs, and are apparently people enough to consent to a relationship with a human woman. WC2 came out on 1995. Itās been 28 years and the lore of that period has gone through plethora of revisions.
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Hence why I said āin that senseā because many people, especially when regarding fantasy worlds, associate the word āpeopleā with humanoid beings. They will often divide up beings in these worlds into archetypes. People for the humanoid races (your humans, elves, dwarves, orcs etc), Beast or Bestial Races for those races that are more akin to animals than human (Gnolls, Centaur, Minotaur, Murlocs), and then there are Dragons, which often sit in a category of their own, theyāre not considered āpeopleā by many, nor are they considered a ābeast raceā.
Gnolls and Murlocs can also speak, and a few have even been given character arcs, but they arenāt people.
That said, I am quite literally agreeing with you. Iām saying that anyone making the argument that Dragons are animals (thereby implying that Jaina engaged in bestiality by having a relationship with Kalecgos) is an idiot, because itās obvious that Dragons are not animals driven by base instinct and simple thought processes.
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Oh sorry, I didnāt mean to sound confrontational with you. It was more of a general response to various people in the thread.
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All good. No harm done. Carry on, undead elf! XD