By meters being addons, its “opt in” to have them. Its not a must. If blizz embraces it into the base game, they will be embracing toxicity to the fullest degree.
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Kicking people because they’re low (and they don’t know it) is better than them seeing that they’re low and can guess that’s why they’re kicked?
Appropriate thing to do is help them and give them advice.
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That’s assuming people want help and won’t launch a barrage of insults. And that’s assuming people are capable of helping others.
Better to kick, replace with someone better.
They’re doing 17s and not 20s for a reason, remember. Don’t do 17s with people and be surprised when they do what gets them by in 17s.
You are talking about pugs right? Pugs who do lower than tank level DPS? Some pugs even do healer level DPS, pugs who get carried at that DPS to an M20 M+ rating, they don’t listen, they don’t care, they just play and brute force it, play as many hours as possible until eventually they make it.
Very rarely will you ever find a pug who wants to improve, and I’ve tried, get a pug who stands in the wrong spot, targets the wrong enemy, does not do mechanics, no interrupts, the usual bad player behaviour and they just don’t listen.
And aside from positioning and all that, how can I tell them what buttons to press and when? I may be able to because I raid lead, but some random player knowing enough about the game to give another random player the correct advice? AND for them to listen?
“They’re doing 15s and not 17s for a reason”
“They’re doing 12s and not 15s for a reason”
“They’re doing 8s and not 10s for a reason”
The list goes on, 440+ iLVL, 2.4K IO, making an excuse for them as to why they are playing 17’s when those stats are appropriate for an M17 or better, adding in the fact they have timed M17 dungeons, some 2 chested, even some timed M18s.
At the end of last season when mythic iLVL was 415-420+, I ran with some M+ with my guild, we had a 385 BDK, a 390 resto druid, a 407 ret (me), a 394 Spriest and a 416 fury, we timed multiple M20’s. At an average of 398 iLVL, 20 iLVL lower than mythic level and we had no issues.
Move to S2 with mythic iLVL being ~445, that meaning the guys I play with could time an M20 at 425 iLVL. Can you pug at 420 for an M20? At what point do we expect players to play within their supposed skill level? Do we have to look for a 3K 447 iLVL player before we pug them for an M17? 3.5K IO? Maybe 4K?
When are you all going to stop making excuses and start realising there is just not enough information in game to realistically pug.
Look, I’m telling you. If you can be doing 20s, don’t waste a second doing 17s, get that key up once and be done with them forever. People with 2200 IO who have 17s timed can and will play like people who have 2200 IO and 17s timed. This doesn’t mean that they should be doing 17s, this means that they have done 17s, perhaps with people who should probably be doing 20s. Maybe they should be doing 10s. Who knows, but whatever score people have is usually the score they can get soft/hard carried to.
Remember that many many teams literally 4 man timed 20s and sell them. So those people might just whack the LFG over and over again and get lucky.
I don’t disagree that logs should be incorporated into the game but I’m just letting you know, the skill level per key cluster is a wide distribution. Some players who do 10s play better than some players who do 20s. For healers, this is even wider.
And what can we expect from a 2200 IO, 440 iLVL player doing 17’s? 50K DPS and twice the deaths as everyone else? I still run 16’s even though I am 2.6K IO and 441 iLVL because it’s the fastest way to get aspect tokens, does that mean you should also expect 50K DPS from me?
Pugging doesn’t mean 100% rate of success. Even people who’ve done keys above can still stand in stuff. Some things start one shotting way sooner than the keys they’re running.
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What you can expect is what you see in their logs. If you link your main character, I can tell you what I expect. If the character in question has no logs or hid their logs, just wait a little longer and someone else with logs will apply.
If they log, which you will very quickly find many players don’t for either raid or M+. Hell I can pull 120K+ DPS in M+, but I don’t log because I primarily play with guild members due to the fact not many pug players log, even when I get good players pugging I still don’t see many with logs.
most people log raids, and you can approximate performance since most people also get AOTC.
M+ logs also exists, and I even have some because other people logged lol.
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M+ logs do exist, but if you checked every single person who asked for an invite into your key you will quickly find it’s not that many.
plenty have raid.
Plenty is not everyone, fact is logs are the only real way to tell how good someone is because being carried is far too easy in this game.
Exactly this, and if someone is not doing well in the raid, when there’s usually one target and they have half as many responsibilities, how are they supposed to be doing well in dungeons? I can almost guarantee that if you look up those players’ raid logs, they won’t be good.
Then do actual hard content, like +27.
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So I just looked at the hunter I had who was garbage, 70-80% parses in heroic, not the best, far from the worst, certainly not what I got from them in that key.
Ok link them?
Either people are left with being “held hostage” by weaker players or the strong ones can carry the weak. Which game design do you prefer?