Sure yeah, like I said I wouldn’t judge a class that way, that goes for community and devs alike.
I don’t know much about meta, but healing Brewmaster is no fun. I didn’t come here to play yoyo.
Have you tried not healing a Brewmaster and seeing what happens?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0vYzdOrSLA
We need utility, not defensive buffs. I’d take a Celestial Brew buff though to buff MoH indirectly and allow us time to do more damage.
They need to expose to healers our Ox Orb’s stacks so they know when we are not okay though. This reception could be why we don’t get into some keys for sure. It’s not just that Brewmaster is hard to play, but it increases the difficulty level on the healer if for nothing else, anxiety caused by lack of understanding when a Brewmaster is in trouble. Understanding which is currently not able to be communicated through add-ons.
Just straight port over spiritborn from D4. Whoever made that monk knew how to make things strong.
They’ll get around to Monk in the OP/NERF cycle.
It’s just a game they play to manipulate the player
populous.
I did see the leaderboards awhile ago and they were 100% spiritborn. This obviously isn’t good either.
Just to suggest that having a single class being overly dominant might be bad for everybody…
I’m not sure if people are struggling to find tanks but, you’re not looking for a tank you’re looking for a protection paladin. Those of us whom didn’t roll one are not incentivized to continue playing because there’s no reasonable path to progress. We’re playing this infinite scaling content like Greater Rifts or Nightmare Dungeons, but you simply aren’t allowed to queue for the next difficulty you need. It’s actually difficult to even start playing the game.
So you’re not looking for players whom enjoy a tank class, you’re looking for players whom like 1 out of 6 of the tank classes. 5/6 tanks are waiting in queue as long as DPS are and this is added to the fact that the role had all power stripped away at the beginning of the expansion and players are looking to tank less in general. Queue times are going to suffer and people aren’t going to sit in game hoping to play, they’ll just play something else.
They just nerfed Prot paladin and its still
- 100% of
+18key runs - 97% of
+17key runs - 96% of
+16key runs - 92% of
+15key runs - …
This is going to trickle down to whatever key level you’re running.
This isn’t really true anymore. Not sure if it ever was previously.
https://mythicstats.com/meta?expansion=all
This is just shifting certain buffs around. For example:
- You’re highly incentivized to bring a druid for MOTW and/or brez.
- Now you’re highly incentivized to bring a shaman for Skyfury and/or lust.
- If no druids are strong Paladin/DK/lock will be for brez and classes with survivability or survivability buffs ( ex devo aura / aug ) will thrive.
- If your druid is a healer then Hunter/Shaman/mage will be strong because you need lust
- Now that shaman’s have Skyfury, and aug exists, why bring a hunter for lust?
- after DF2 Augmentation introduction your lust is Aug, forever and always, actually taking away utility from R Shaman and they disappeared from the meta entirely once aug was introduced. Again not because they were nerfed, but because this game mode is actually about synergistic utility.
- Aug/Mage/Shadow Priest were dominant for 3 seasons (the rest of the expansion / no buff nerf cycle)
This isn’t gospel by any stretch, but just here to show that heuristics can be made to predict the meta, and it’s not really strongly coupled to class tuning however class utility. So it seems less about tuning than utility. And Monk brings zero utility.
There’s only two ways to solve any balance for classes that brings zero utility. Make it overly strong in its raw output, which monk is not, or… give it some utility. If they, only for example, gave monk a buff which operated like Skyfury however giving Crit instead of Mastery all monks would have significantly increased representation, even with no other changes.
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Honestly monk is the one class I really feel bad for. It hasn’t had a functional pvp spec outside of pvp for… when was mop?
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As a monk main that plays all three specs myself, it came as no surprise to me during the rework that both windwalkers and brewmasters basically came out the other end still performing like garbage compared to other classes who also got reworked.
Blizzard will never admit it but their lack of incentive to improve monks is because the representation of the overall class is just too low to matter. Why put any design effort into helping a class that is under represented? This becomes a vicious cycle as the majority of the specs decay and even less people want to play them. On the other hand, they will never mess up a pally or hunter rework. Ever. If there’s something wrong, it will be fixed quickly. Case and point - prot pally.
Die-hards who actually like the monk class fantasy and gameplay (like myself) are left disappointed again and again.
OP - I appreciate what you’re trying to do here and I hope it does raise the attention of developers.
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woah what monks yall playing?! the latest monks are dps heros from my perspective. give more more more is all i ever read in these forums
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First couple facts.
1 I dont do M+ yet
2 MY windwalker is level 75
I notice I do significantly MORE damage if I equip pole arm rather than 2 swords or a staff. Pole arms have a nice high damage multiplier and usually have critical strike. My windwalker monk does acceptable damage at 75 with low 500s gear , specced thus, so If your 80 windwalker has crap damage, you might want to dump the harmonius staff of pure garbage and get a nice pole arm.
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Over majority of the life of Monks in the game, it is very clear that blizzard just does not know what to do with them. Maybe they should’ve kept the original dev instead of reportedly removing him out of spite.
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I don’t think people dislike how monk is designed overall though it could use a bit of work in places, it’s just the numbers aren’t tuned well. It’s obviously not the monk archetype or style people don’t like, because D3 monks are very popular, Lee Sin is very popular in League, etc.
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There are haves and have-nots in wow. Some classes/specs are just there for flavor. Not supposed to be competitive. Like brewmaster, feral Druid, etc. If you look at where classes where when they received their buffs/nerfs over the last ~3 expansions, you see it’s not an effort to make classes equal, it’s put classes back in their place. Getting things done with a bad spec is a built-in-design challenge. It’s not an accident.
Yeah… it’s kinda easy to tell at this point which classes are lacking a dedicated developer…Monk and Warlock are the most egregious examples of it. Then again, they are two of the least played classes, so big corpo gonna do big corpo things.
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My destro warlock is capped , so I can’t make a fair comparison , but he seems to do ok aoe damage with a little timing skill. Demonology is pretty much the same boat, just need to know when the minion AOE is recharged… Single mob crit is another story, but we always want more , don’t we?
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Healing monks are absolutely cracked right now and one of the healers that is in half of the highest keys in the world. Brewmaster is absolutely insane at tanking bosses and basically can’t die but they struggle with AOE pulls. I’m sure wind walker has its problems but I’ve played with some this season and they do crazy damage and have a ton of utility
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Oh, yeah, damage-wise warlocks aren’t the worst out there…but the rotation is janky AF and it’s easy to make mistakes or misplays during movement, especially as demonology. The main problem I’ve got with the state of lock right now is that it feels like I’ve got to put in so much more effort/knowledge to deal that damage than most other classes. Destro is the easier spec and it’s still far more clunky than any of the mage specs, for example. There’s just not a good “flow” feeling, at least in my opinion.
It feels like the design philosophy was meant to be high risk, high reward…but we got high risk, middling reward instead lol
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I love how a tiny bit of stagger slowly bleeds you out. Feels great in Delves when you’re constantly almost dying from 1% stagger.
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Design issues are the major contributor. Mistweaver in particular has too much reliance on healing amps, massive ramp times (more than disc even because we lack something like radiance), bugs galore, and a few good designs like CJL + Jade Empowerment. Also, square root scaling on invigorating mists (sigh).
Brew needs so much work it isn’t funny. The cooldowns are all bland/boring. There is no Sentinel or Metamorphosis here. It has too many weak cooldowns. It takes too much damage. It feels like it needs an extra 2 charges of purifying brew. It’s extremely complex and the reward for that complexity is being worse than every other tank by a country mile. Its healthbar which used to be much more more stable now bounces around like a DKs, and it’s pretty much impossible for a healer to tell when you need help outside of tracking both purifying brew charges AND your stagger. Your healer has to be half playing the tank alongside you to understand how hard to heal you – it’s beyond dumb.
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Demonology should absolutely be one of the highest dps specs if you pull off the rotation. It does decent damage, but there’s no reason it should be middling when the complexity is higher than most other specs.
Arcane is another example of this, that is doing a bit better. High risk/complex = high reward if you pull it off.
Things like ret and frost DK should have a lower theoretical cap because the complexity is low and they’re easy to pull off. So its a more reliable spec with high survivability, but not top of charts with perfect play.
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