No timers, no affixes. Just a scaled up dungeon experience.
The thing M+ does right is that it scales up to keep the dungeon feeling like it’s supposed to, but affixes aren’t fun. Affixes are the complete opposite of fun. I’d rather enemies just be scaled further up.
The timer isn’t inherently annoying, but it does create a “go go go” mentality in groups, which also isn’t fun. Most people don’t want their key to downgrade and I can’t blame them.
I’d like an entirely separate mode, so people who want to play with timers and affixes can do so, but people who want just a regular challenging dungeon crawler experience aren’t riddled with annoyances.
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They do this every expansion, though. That’s where Tazzavesh, Mechagon, and Return to Karazhan all came from.
And you know what? Most people asking for “challenging untimed dungeons” never do any of them. Which I’ve always found strange.
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Megadungeons aren’t quite what I’m referring to, but I think expansions should release 2 or 3 megadungeons. Not just 1. They’re a great idea and are a lot more like that dungeon crawler experience.
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Then why didn’t you do them?
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Because I wasn’t playing at the time. What’s your point?
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My point is that you’re asking for something they already do.
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If they already did it, I wouldn’t be asking for it. Maybe reread my OP.
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It is much easier to upscale existing dungeons than it is create newer content like Mega dungeons on a regular basis.
Mega dungeons needs to have a reward structure like that of raid or its just going to be a one and done thing as there is no incentives for players to replay the content.
Quite a few other MMOs are doing that recently. I dont know why WoW doesnt now. I play other MMOs. LA and a little bit of FFXIV. Tiny bit of it. Dont like the game all that much tbh but yea some of the other games out there have way better PvE systems than WoW has right now currently.
How about those of us who grew up playing hack and slash fantasy dungeon crawl games such as Gauntlet Legends and the such. A good DC game where all you focus on is battling the NPCs with a group of friends or solo and having fun while doing it.
Or just go to Classic and find a good group that doesnt zerg rush all the content. You can get your good MMO feel there still. Current WoW hardly feels like an MMO anymore.
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Do you guys remember when the forums wanted another Blackrock Depths? Another long, multi tiered instance that required hours to complete?
Why did everyone change their mind?
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I don’t feel like roguelike mini-games work well in WoW. Not that it isn’t possible but it would take 2 raid tiers to make it worth playing.
I have untold hours playing Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup and Dwarf Fortress. It just feels like those games take years of development to be any good.
Affixes are necessary in roguelikes in my opinion. Good examples are maps in Path of Exile or choosing your landing point in Dwarf Fortress. You need affixes to keep the game fresh.
Just a run run dungeon? I would like that,no timers no affixes no huge mobs but with some exploration ,maybe that cave maze ?
Upper and Lower blackrock spire.
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What kind of dungeon do you want exactly because the current dungeons would be kind of boring after awhile without M+, they just aren’t designed in a way that’s challenging without it, even just boosting their HP and Damage to be higher than M+ without affixes isn’t really going to make it fun in my opinion.
We could have new Maraudon like dungeons with multiple entrances that all connect into one bigger dungeon that’s filled with extremely powerful elites that snap necks left and right if you don’t kick spells or use CC but don’t have affixes and timers, is this what you want? A dungeon made entirely and only for this kind of challenge?
And just to touch on a larger point here, Blizz has all the demographic data for this game and has occasionally made it public.
The target demo for this game simply DOES NOT HAVE TIME to run these “mega dungeons.”
What is so counterproductive to this idea that you can’t simply START with having X-number of wings of a “mega dungeon” already broken up into smaller pieces??
Only have 20mins but want to play WoW? Just do the first wing.
Did you take a day off and have loads of free time for yourself, and want to grind 4+ hours? Do the first wing… THEN then the second wing… THEN the third wing.
Why is that so bad?
The mega-dungeon idea simply does not work in WoW because when I have free time, finding the people I want to play with (same time available, SAME SKILL SET) almost never matches up.
It shouldn’t be WORK … to play this GAME. Mega-dungeons are a failed concept in MMOs. Just stop already. You can make a 100-wing mega dungeon for all I care, but don’t make it so you have to run the ENTIRE THING at once. That DOES NOT WORK.
best part is when they drag their rumps down into leveling dungeons…scream “MUH FACEROOLLLLZ”…and then proceed to pull a room full of fearing mobs…and we all get to chain fear till dead.
I hate ones that dont realize that theyre not playing their maxed out level 60 character and one shoting everything…and yeah…chain fear wipes are still a thing regardless of how bad you think your twink is.
Maraudon and Dire Maul answered this problem for the most part when they released in vanilla with multiple entrances that drop you off in different parts of the dungeon so you get a big dungeon you can stay in and clear out if you have time or just do the wing you drop into if your group doesn’t have time for more.
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You can only have so many difficulties in scaling without a timer to be challenging and impossible. Scaling would have to be much much harder.
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Sometimes I need a rolled up new paper 
to go to blizzard and bump some heads .dungeon simple, maze, a cave ,explore? bump,bump.
DM is 100% a good model.
Only thing I don’t like about Mara (because overall I like the dungeons), is that the dungeons themselves are like 15mins into a cave. It takes FOREVER just to get to them.
That part can’t stay. Tedium doesn’t equal fun.
edit to add: DM not only had “wings” … it had a challenge mode!! DM is a great design! 
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