WC3: Why didn’t Medivh

Lore Story Forum
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…explain to the Kingdom of Lordaeron what was coming?

Because when you think about it, he just came off as a crazy person with no specifics beyond ‘the world is ending, you all have to leave your homes right now and go to Kalimdor because…just do it!’

Of course they were going to treat him like he was a nutty doomsayer and throw him out instead of taking him seriously.

Thrall, at least, could be convinced on such flimsy threats because the Horde was not yet established in a permanent home, it was mobile enough to just pick up and move en masse like Medivh suggested, and most importantly Thrall knew enough about the demons to believe Medivh and make such a move.

The Humans of Lordaeron, on the other hand, were the exact opposite. They’d been established for centuries so just picking up and leaving was a much bigger deal for them. Plus they didn’t really have much idea as to the threat Medivh was referencing and so had little to no reason to trust him.

This, to me, always struck me as an extremely unrealistic approach by Medivh and in my mind at least made him largely responsible for what ultimately happened in Lordaeron. Why expect the same gimmick to work on Humans when the Orcs were far different culturally?

He didn’t have to spill the beans on everything to get Humans to realize the scale of the threat. And frankly, if all Azeroth is at stake, taking the time to explain yourself properly should be an acceptable inconvenience.

Here’s an example as to how it could have gone had Medivh NOT ranted like a crazy person and actually explained himself.

Medivh: But…prisoners they are, great king.
Terenas: What is the meaning of this?! Who are you?
Medivh: I am…I was, once called Medivh of Stormwind.
murmurs of disbelief as Terenas’ eyes widen
Terenas: The Guardian?
Kirin Tor: Impossible! Medivh was slain long ago.
Medivh: sighs Yes…and yet I persisted still and am something…different now.
Medivh: looks as Terenas intently Yes great king, I am indeed the Guardian and I come to you now with a grave warning.
Terenas: narrows eyes Of what?
Medivh: raises staff A doom that could spell not only the end of Humanity, but of all of Azeroth.
Medivh slams his staff upon the ground, and gasps of shock and horror echo across the chamber as a magical window appears of a burning world beset by a tide of demonic creatures butchering and destroying with gleeful abandon
Terenas: whispers What is this?
Medivh: They are the doom that comes for this world…the Burning Legion.
Terenas: These…monsters are coming …here?
Medivh: nods gravely It has already begun great king.
Medivh: looks up at Kirin Tor Ambassador You were correct to be worried about the plague Ambassador, this is the avenue by which the Legion’s agents are preparing for the coming invasion.
Kirin Tor: It is…just a distraction?
Medivh: Indeed, and it is far more widespread than you believed.
Terenas: sits down heavily Can anything be done for them?
Medivh: shakes head sadly It is too late for them, and the more you try to save them, the sooner you will deliver all your people into the Legion’s hands.
Medivh: spreads hands There is only one way to save your people great king…you must lead them to the distant lands of Kalimdor, and you must due so with haste.
shouts and indignation erupts across the chamber but quickly dies down as slowly Terenas stands
Terenas: looks warily at Medivh And why would we do such a thing?
Medivh: Because a great source of power resides in that ancient land. It is a power the Legion covets above all else, but it is also a power that could be used against them to save Azeroth.
Medivh: looks across the chamber I know what it is I ask of you and your people, but if you do not leave these shores soon, no walls or strength of arms will save you when the demons come.
Silence fills the chamber as Terenas sinks back into his throne
Terenas: looks up wearily There is no other choice?
Medivh: shakes head No.
Terenas: nods slowly before looking up Chamberlain, send for messengers. I am hereby decreeing all villages including the Capitol prepare for exodus.
shouts of disbelief echo across the chamber as Terenas stands
Kirin Tor: My lord, you can’t be serious! We don’t know if anything this man has said is true, to prepare our entire kingdom to leave across the sea simply on his word would be…
Terenas: …foolishness, yes Ambassador. Terenas looks up to face him Which is why I now implore you to send agents of your order to the infected villages and learn the truth, quickly.
paling, the Ambassador quickly bows and teleports away in a thunderclap of displaced air
Medivh: hisses You waste time great king, you cannot save them!
Terenas: rounds Perhaps not, but I will have the truth one way or another and will not abandon my people so callously even on the word of the Guardian.
Medivh opens his mouth to speak but Terenas cuts him off
Terenas: Though I find your warning hard to believe, I do believe the darkness you warned us of is coming and if the Kirin Tor’s suspicions are confirmed, I myself will lead the people of Lordaeron west to Kalimdor. Be assured of that.
Medivh stares back silently for a moment before bowing deep and turning to leave
Medivh: Make haste great king, time is short and the hour of doom draws ever closer. When you reach the shores of Kalimdor, I will be waiting.
Medivh shifts back into a raven and flies off
Terenas closes his eyes
Terenas: Chamberlain, be so kind as to send your fastest messenger to recall Lord Uther and the Prince back to the Capitol immediately, they will have much work ahead of them.
Chamberlain: A-at once sire.
Terenas flashes a weary smile bereft of humor
Terenas: And summon the ambassadors for Gilneas and Quel’thalas…

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Its a well thought idea except for one rather significant problem. Medivh was killed because he was possessed the lord of the very Legion he is warning them of. To come directly and say he was Medivh in a room full of people who would almost certainly know who he was and why he was killed would likely not end well. Also, asking a king to uproot his entire kingdoms population and move them across the sea is an enormous undertaking under the best of circumstances. Even a small misstep could end in a disaster.

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Medivh was/is a crazy person. He was never "normal’ when he was alive, and dying and coming back as a ghost probably unsettled him even more.

His mother made him a Guardian before he was even born… that’s like Warcraft’s version of Alia and that’s not even taking into account demonic possession… by the arch demon itself.

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He should have warned the Night Elves first. They were the ones who actually fought them head on and were waiting for their coming for over 10k years. By warning the elves first they would have prepared for the Legion as well as both Human and Orcs arriving at their forests.

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See, this actually makes sense from a realistic perspective…though not necessarily from a narrative one.

Also, adding on to what Danseis said, the OP assumes that men like Terenas and Antonidas were open to reasonable arguments.

They weren’t.

Why do you think Jaina ends up being “the Chosen Leader” of humanity? The novels that lead up to Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (Lord of the Clans, Of Blood and Honor, Day of the Dragon) as well as the game itself make it very clear that the original (old male) leaders of the Alliance of Lordaeron were largely a group of self-absorbed, racially-prejudiced/human-supremacist, politically-power-mongering bureaucrats.

Even if Medivh had gone into more detail about the plague, they were never going to leave behind their holdings, cities, castles, wealth, status, etc.

And they certainly were never going to willingly ally with the Horde against the Burning Legion—even Jaina needs some convincing when Medivh confronts her and Thrall at Stonetalon.

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Plot device.

Also, prophecies have to come in at least somewhat vague riddles and indistinct warnings. Dem’s da rules.

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They … might have tried to kill him ? :wink:

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Remember how when Medivh warned Terenas about the Legion, he was all cryptic about his people being prisoners and tides of darkness? And then when Khadgar warned Varian about the Legion years later, literally the first thing he said was “the Burning Legion has returned?”

Khadgar doesn’t waste words.

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I think it worked out OK for Theoden. I mean, it wasn’t across the sea but people packed up and moved out pretty quickly.

:pancakes:

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To be fair, Varian was alive to see the last few demonic invasions and that they really existed.

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Yeah, it’s worth remembering that going into WC3, most of the known world outside Kalimdor thought the night elves and Sundering were basically a myth, and had no idea that demons were part of an organized and coordinated effort to invade the planet.

Which was in no small part a consequence of the high elves and Order of Tirisfalen deciding that such things needed to be kept secret to avoid causing a panic. Mage-run societies have a habit of assuming the mundanes can’t cope with the truth and need to be kept in the dark as much as possible. For all her problems with them, that was an attitude Aegwynn shared with the Order of Tirisfal, until she admitted to herself in Cycle of Hatred that the near-apocalypse during and subsequent recovery after the Third War had convinced her that they’d all been mistaken about the world’s ability to handle knowledge of the Legion threat without falling apart.

Medivh was probably hoping the rise of a new Horde in their lands and the spreading plague in the north would provide sufficient proof of the encroaching calamity (“tides of darkness rising again” and all), and that trying to explain the finer points of a cohesive demonic military conspiracy being behind the latter problem would only serve to confuse the Alliance’s leaders if they even proved willing to listen to it.

Medivh was also a weird shut-in for most of his life who only ever had three or four actual friends, no close family and just generally wasn’t very good at dealing with others. So he may have honestly not realized that just hurling his high-handed doomsaying in their faces would be met with heavy skepticism at best and outright dismissal at worst. After all, back when he was first alive he was in good with Lothar and Llane, so his word alone would have probably been enough to have the leadership of Stormwind dropping everything else to address such a dire warning because it came from him.

As the resurrected Guardian, he couldn’t very well even identify himself in the Eastern Kingdoms since he’d died a (possessed) traitor, so he stormed in making proclamations like he normally would, only without being able to back it up with his old, pre-First War reputation.

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In a Let’s Play video David Fried, the Warcraft 3 level designer, did acknowledge that Medivh’s warning to Terenas was extremely vague and that he should’ve mentioned the Burning Legion and orcs as well.

I think at the time Blizzard was just going for that standard mysterious prophet vibe, and prophets are rather vague.

Though not revealing his identity also made sense to Medivh as well. Well the official story was that, Medivh fall to the orcs in the First War, the Kirin Tor leadership were made aware of the actual truth. And in light of Sargeras deceiving them once, they would have no reason to believe that Medivh was really Medivh.

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See, this is the point in the conversation where Terenas orders the guards to execute Medhiv on the spot. It’s not like his role in bringing the Horde to Azeroth was unknown. In fact, they’d probably blame the recent movements of the Horde on him, and further mistrust anything he would say. Worse, even Jaina might’ve doubted his warnings, if she’d known who he was when he approached her.

Khadgar is also a Hero of the Alliance, a Son of Lothar, a figure that is legendary in the annals of Azeroth, and in a good way. There was no reason for him to hide his identity by denying his name or being cryptic about the threat so it was not connected to him, and turn Varian away from his warning.

Apples and Oranges, my friend.

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Night Elves aren’t big on taking warnings from strangers… especially if they’re ghosts.

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Not to get political, but I think the world knows now how much its leaders will act in its best interest in the event of a calamity, regardless of how clear the evidence is.

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Was Medivh actually a ghost? I thought Aegwynn was the one who brought him back from the dead? Or am I remembering that wrong?

(unless by “ghost” you mean from a metaphorical point and not a literal one).

“The first two wars were false flag operations so the Alliance could implant chocolate chips in our heads!!”

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“This entire city must be purged.”

“How can you even consider that? It’s just like the flu!”

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It is also important to note that Medivh also spoke to Thrall in riddles and visions. However Thrall, even though he didn’t know exactly what happened on Draenor between the orcs and the Legion (he would learn later on), he knew that the Legion wasn’t just myth and legend. Which was why he listened to Medivh and the rest of the horde obeyed. They knew first hand the threat that was coming, so no need to play politics or treat Medivh as a mad prophet.

It also speaks to the arrogance of the humans. They had defeated the horde so they believed that any “demon army” would be just as easy. Uther says this to Arthas after the latter killed the orc blademaster in the 2nd human mission.

Arthas : I don’t know, Uther. The orcs were sacrificing townsfolk. I think they were trying to summon demons.
Uther the Lightbringer : Have faith, lad. These orcs are trying to hold on to dying traditions. We defeated their demons a long time ago. Let’s head for home. It’s been a long day.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blackrock_and_Roll_(WC3_Human)

Which does play into why the scourge and the plaque was so successful. You had people within the Human Kingdoms ranks turn on their own kin (cult of the damned, which did have important political figures in it, such as Baron Rivendare) but the plaque of undeath also turned those it infected into undead slaves of the Lich King. Which at the time, the Legion believed was on a tight leash. Then you had necromancers that were able to turn corpses into undead soldiers. So every enemy you killed became an ally.

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Thing is Mehivh was a crazy person who created a self fulfilling prophecy. The Legion and Scourge threat would have ended in the Eastern Kingdoms had he just warned people of the Legion and urged them to fight back against the Scourge and let the orcs be.

All it takes to stop the Legion and Scourge would have been preventing the fall of Quel’thalas, since without that the Legion/Scourge lack the power to summon Arhimonde and thus open portals for the full invasion.

Sure a lot if not most of Lorderon would have died, but there still would have been a Lorderon left.

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Yet the legion would have just tried a different strategy if that has failed, the point was to stop the legion then and there I do believe instead of just postponing the inevitable invasion.