-I- think it’s explicit… Clearly you don’t. My point was that even with the ability to be interpreted a number of ways, it still leaves things open to be built up from without being contradictory.
They are retconning Warcraft 3 -now-. WoW has been a mess of retcons, deconstructing lore that people enjoy to built up sub-par lore than people like less.
Like I said, he built up background material in the revision stages of Lord of The Rings pre-publication. Everything after was textual changes that didn’t impact the story.
The plain reading of the text would indicate the Shadow Council supports the new Warchief. Your offer of an interpretation of unreliable narrator is not the plain reading, even though I might grant it is a valid interpretation. THIS IS STILL CONTRADICTING YOUR CLAIM THAT THERE WAS ZERO SIGNS OF THE SHADOW COUNCIL SUPPORTING THE PLAYER CHARACTER’S COUP.
That is very fancy speak for “he retconned the previous work”. You’re really grasping for reasons to give Tolkien an exception to your “Build your future lore on your previous lore” standard. That’s what’s known as a double standard.
Though interesting that you should say that “Textual changes that don’t impact the story” seem to be allowable. I’ve half a thought of checking that qualification through the various retcons now.
After that Warchief had just seized control by force…
You are ignoring context.
No it doesn’t… the Shadow Council didn’t support the coup, the Shadow Council supported the new Warcheif After the old one was overthrown… Which is exactly what Gul’dan did.
Edit: But again, you keep distracting me with this non-argument. It wouldn’t matter if it’s contradictory… Again, for the 3rd time, you would have only shown that Blizz retcons… when my entire point is that they shouldn’t…
No, they are just words. Nothing fancy about them. He made the changes he wanted during the revision stage prior to the publication of 1937… Everything else was textual revisions that happened, still in the revision stage before the publication of Lord of the Rings in 57. Rather than releasing something only to change it later for a new story, he changed it in revisions, so the story would be cohesive.
Hm? He outright retconned a chapter of the Hobbit. In the original version, Bilbo won the Ring through a challenge, but during writing Lord of the Rings he felt Gollum wouldn’t part with the ring willingly, so he retconned the chapter to Bilbo stealing the ring instead.
There’s still original versions of the Hobbit kicking about though they are rare, and old.
Probably for the best given the ring is noted as instilling a corrupting desire to keep it at all costs in the people who hold it. Even Bilbo and Frodo didn’t overcome it. Would be weird for someone who devolved into a cave goblin and murdered his brother? over it to be able to ignore the influence and give it up.
Kind of the big take away here. It’s also important to note that Tolkien was completely changing themes. The Hobbit originally was a Children’s book… The revisions made to it established it as a prequel to an adult fantasy trilogy. I feel retcon made when you are completely changing sub-genres are more forgivable.
Furthermore, again, these were changes made in revisions for Lord of the Rings, which Tolkien had no intention of ever writing. He intended to write the Silmarillion, but the publication company wanted “More Hobbits”. He had to make revisions because he was told too, not because it was part of his creative process, and It wasn’t like The Fellowship of the Ring came out, and we just had to infer that a retcon was made. Then Two Towers came out, contradicting something from the previous book. Which is essentially how Blizzard handles their lore with nearly every addition.
So, I don’t really think its the same thing here. I think Blizzard captured something people liked, and has slowly been deconstructing everything people liked about it over time.
I assume the skin color change is to make the change more than just ‘orc with red skin’ now that they can make them more detailed. Plus WoD had orcs drinking fel blood and not turning red, so they have more freedom there.
Eh I have to disagree. That was not what I said. The themes and tone of the Hobbit totally remained the same, it was still a children’s book that did not change at all.
The revised chapter still was as, well, childish as the rest of the book. Tolkien just came to the conclusion after writing the Silmarillion that Gollum would’ve never do anything that risked the Ring, so he had to revise how Bilbo got the Ring originally.
This is a case of Tolkien developing a character and realizing that earlier portrayals were no longer accurate to what he was developing, so he had to change it.
There are other things that Tolkien changed, like vegatables that didn’t exist in Europe being removed from the Hobbit, but no one cares about that.
I also learnt that the Hobbit and the Silmarillion were not originally going to be in the same continuity. At some point while writing the Hobbit he merged them. This isn’t a retcon, I just thought it was a cool note.
The new chaos orcs are a lot more spikey now.
I wonder if they’ll keep calling them Chaos orcs or go with Fel orcs for the Warsong, and pretty much wipe out Chaos orcs as even being a term.
Sure, but the revisions came when he was establishing the book as a prequel to a trilogy that was a completely different sub-genre. Still, that’s only a minor point. He never intended to write The Lord of the Rings, the publishers wanted him too.
One thing I want to go on record whining about is them keeping the “blood elf lieutenant” generics over Rommath (whose entire character is shaped by having been with Kael through all of this) or his TK council members. I’ve thought for years that Kael needed another blood elf character to bounce his thoughts off in the Alliance campaign, and new additions like Thalorien and Anasterian gave me vain hope that they’d add in a few other lore characters at appropriate points, but alas not in this instance it seems.
I’ll admit, these skins have already given me cool ideas for custom maps of “what if” campaigns.
In this case, what if Arthas hadn’t gone to Northrend, and essentially became king through a more normal means (something like his actions in Stratholme caused so much grief his father passed away or something) and was this sort of strict authoritarian ruler trying to keep his people in line. Sort of a “aren’t you grateful for what I’ve done” kind of tyranny. These gorgeous models have a lot of potential.