3Slot does it again with the bait thread.
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Fair enough, I retract the allegation of a tu quoque. That said, your response didn’t deal with any of the criteria outlined, since the Tauren weren’t
their leadership hadn’t
and the
were given opportunity of evacuation to the point that it actually undermined The Alliance’s military goals.
Then there’s the matter of scale–a colossal difference in a not insignificant variable. So the standard set by the two actions is simply not analogous.
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It seems your issue isn’t about what constitutes a legitimate target so much as how a legitimate target is treated? If so, how Teldrassil was treated isn’t uniformly popular amongst horde fans either. I’m of the opinion that Blizz was extremely short sighted with an unclear grasp on how they wanted to achieve their stated goals for this expansion.
edit: Tbf, I was under the impression that the initial goal of Teldrassil was to keep them alive to leverage as perpetual hostages.
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What is even the purpose of establishing Teldrassil as a military target again? Because I’m not seeing an endpoint in the argument. Yes, Teldrassil was a valid military target. And? Genocide is over the line. Genocide is not okay.
Tomlyn’s issue, to me, seems more to be with your false equivalence regarding the scale and actions of the comparisons, less the word you want them to share. The two were valid military targets and that’s it. One, the Alliance leadership handled honorably and did their best to prevent catastrophe on a very small scale engagement and the other, the Horde leadership burned every last man, woman, and child alive on a tree the size of Rhode Island.
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Your impression is correct. Even internal Sylvanas monologuing during the novellas states this is the goal, until very suddenly after her chat with Delaryn does she decide to put it up in flames, seemingly solely to spite that one, dying archer.
Things would’ve gone much better if Teldrassil went up in flames from something else. The Horde showed up, were preparing to cross the water to invade, and the tree just went up in flames. Alliance blames Sylvanas, Horde troops know it wasn’t Sylvanas, suddenly you’ve got both sides actually wanting to fight for their flag, and a fun mystery to explore during the expansion; who burned Teldrassil and why?
Instead they went with the mustache-twirling villain route and watched as Horde to Alliance faction transfer purchases went up by 300% after the Warbringers animation.
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Got the metrics for this? Actually curious. Because all I’ve seen is even more going Horde to be with the friends who went Horde to be with friends etc etc down the line to the big PvE exodus that happened earlier in the year.
The two were valid military targets and that’s it
That was my entire point. If there’s no issue with that then there may not be an issue at all.
What is the point driving at? To what end is the observation being brought up in a topic about whether or not genocide has happened? I’m not seeing what there is to gain by saying it, or arguing it.
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Nothing concrete or source-able.
I know I’m playing the stereotype right now, so feel free to disregard the statement entirely if you’d prefer, but I’ve got a long-time friend who worked as a Level 2 Test Manager at Blizzard for a while, quitting recently due to disagreements with his own management. We were catching up after the Warbringers came out and he said everyone there was surprised at the backlash, that Horde to Alliance transfers were up over 300% and Alliance to Horde transfers were down 20%.
I thought I was very clear by responding that my post was evaluating in-universe standards for a term was described as evaluative.
edit: a larger overall purpose, I would say, is to establish a uniform standard with wich to build the discussion on.
I see no reason maintain my incredulity. I think a lot of us older players have made similar friendships over the years. Though now I wonder what the original numbers were.
Oh, no. I see it now. I was legit having trouble finding the source of the discussion.
I used to have three close buddies working at Blizzard, but they’ve all since quit and/or moved onto other projects. ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
But I agree, knowing actual numbers would’ve been great as well. I wish demographic data like that were publicly available. I could read that stuff for hours.
Ah, yeah. I just find it beneficial to establish equal footing in these discussions. Otherwise, we could get multiple people talking about different things when they think they are discussing the same thing.
No, you’re completely wrong. Thrall was way better than Alexstrasza during the First War.
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I doubt it would have been perpetual, as that would have been too draining on Horde resources. Just keep them as hostages in order to tie the Alliance’s hands long enough to give the Horde enough time strengthen itself with Azerite and the riches of Ashenvale in order to gain an advantageous position over the Alliance. Thus be able to negotiate from a position of strength whenever conflict arises between the two powers.
The writers had a different idea though. They decided they would have Sylvanas burn the tree down and with it, any hope that we would get a story where peace doesn’t come off as ridiculously contrived and the Horde’s, especially the Forsaken’s identity eternally tarnished.
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Well, I’ll back out. I don’t like talking for someone else and I see now I missed a whole post by Tomlyn. I still feel establishing whether or not Teldrassil was a valid military target at one point doesn’t lend much, but I’m just distracting from their own point and me missing their first post didn’t help that at all.
Ah! This actually would have made sense. I always thought the ability for portals would have allowed the Nelves to trickle out but his actually does make sense.
So? It’s a wiki. It’s not canon. It’s other people’s fanon and and interpretations. So you can just say “other people agree with me.” So can Cursed. People agreed with him in your earlier precious thread. People agree with him now. I agree with him. But I’m not going down the rabbit hole of trying to argue that level of minutia and technical jargon semantics on this. I don’t care enough to, particularly when I think it was genocidal regardless and the topic makes getting that kind of technical tacky and tasteless anyway. Also, no one who remembers my Durotar irrigation arguments with Kyalin would want to see this become another such discussion.
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As usual, the WW 2 comparison is simply wrong.
Saurfang spared Malfurion and warned Tyrande to flee far away or they would die if she returned to Teldrassil.
I do not recall the German leadership allowing the community leaders and religious leaders who they opposed safe passage away from danger like the Horde did…
Saurfang also allowed for elves in darkshore to escape.
Although the deathcamps that are there now are a little on the nose imo.
Anything to make the horde look as bad as possible for the alliance, right? Alliance purge squads get removed 5 seconds after they were put in.