Was The Teldrassil BBQ A Genocide?

Lore Story Forum
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Functional in this case would mean the ability to continue as a people long term. The example of the new Alliance helper group for 8.2 is the example of “non-functional” being discussed. That is, a race that would no longer be able to continue on past the current decade or maybe century.

Whether or not this is accurate or just needless stale raising that will never be addressed after BfA ala the fact that belf’s somehow function after losing over 90% of their population is anyone’s guess.

Edit: you do make a good example of the Rwandan case. Sorry was just being a bit pedantic.

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36

Fair, the bits about this that make me cringe were experienced by my father, not me.

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I wasn’t trying to imply that it was me personally, but…close enough, if you catch me.

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Also fair. Honestly, I don’t know what Blizzard expected when they brought this topic in WoW with such…stark…terminology, it was always destined to be a trashfire. If someone from the outside peers into the WoW forums these days it’s…not flattering, to say the least.

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39

Because Blizzard’s morality I am pretty certain should be on the scale of blue/orange not black/white.

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40

We’ve been over this. The line from Elegy, “Sylvanas Windrunner had committed genocide.” is stated from a third person, narrative perspective, not Anduin’s.

The full passage with all applicable context:

Tyrande closed her eyes. “I said the tree would not be… ” Her voice broke. She opened her eyes and looked at the child she held in her arms, covered with soot, but whole. Healthy. Alive. Tears slipped slowly down her cheeks. “What is her name?” she asked softly.

Mia shook her head weakly. “I don’t know.”

“Then, little one, I shall name you Finel. ‘The last.’ For you are the last kaldorei to escape with your life.”

The World Tree was more than a city. It was an entire land, home to countless innocents. How many night elves were elsewhere in Azeroth? Far too few. Now, they were all who remained of their people.

Sylvanas Windrunner had committed genocide.

Anduin had known she was selfish—arrogant, too. Cunning. Driven. But he had never expected this. Through blurred vision, he saw Genn Greymane’s face as his wife clung to him, and he realized that not even Genn, who hated Sylvanas with his whole heart, could believe it. No one had thought she would put her cruelty before her cleverness. There was no strategic purpose, no possible reason to destroy the tree. Far from it—with this unfathomable decision, Sylvanas had united the Alliance in a way nothing else could.

Third person writing comes in a few flavors. Elegy remains in the third person throughout, with bits of second person writing in there, but it obviously touches on the personal thoughts of certain characters even in the third person perspective. We see this in the quoted passage above as well. Perspective shifts, however, with each new paragraph and/or drastic shift in subject. That’s standard writing for a third person narrative.

The entire first portion of this passage (the italicized bit) is from a neutral, third person perspective. It describes Tyrande asking a question, crying, Mia replying, Tyrande responding again, and then narrative descriptions.

As you’ll notice though, it never mentions anything that can’t be directly observed. Others can see that Tyrande is crying, so it describes her crying. It doesn’t go into detail about her thoughts, or Mia’s thoughts, or anyone’s thoughts, until the perspective shifts to Anduin’s later on. This is simply because it’s not from anyone’s direct perspective. This is further reinforced with the “their people” line at the end of the fourth paragraph; if it were from Tyrande’s perspective, wouldn’t it be “my people”?

This neutral, third person narrative continues till the end of the genocide statement. The first indicator for a shift in perspective - as we see again with paragraphing - is when it starts with “Anduin had known…” and continues through in the boldened section.

The italicized bit in the above passage is the voice of the narrative.

Here was the first time I explained this:

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41

Thanks for posting this cannibal, going to bookmark and link next thousand times when it crops up if you don’t mind. It’s probably the most comprehensive breakdown of the passage and it makes the argument clearly and concisely.

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42

More than welcome to.

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, God calls it a duck… it’s probably a duck.

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43

Well there WERE 1000 citizens in Darnassus when the fire started. We we trying to save them. Remember the countdown timer?

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If not a genocide, a holocaust. Both aren’t great.

… but it’s a genocide.

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45

So I originally thought these we only lost 1000 because of the fire quest. I later had to admit that it was significantly more. But what I never bought is that the Nelves, like some are assuming are down to Belf numbers or near extinction. So does this prove or at least imply that there are tons more left?

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We havent “been through” this - I left your thread when you started acting like my attacks on your position were personal. I didnt even reply to your points or read on to avoid derailing it.

Notice I never replied once I said I would not.

But your interpretation is still as biased and wrong as it was then. You cant twist the narrative - even if the bias in the Forums agrees with you.

I like how you claim what’s in the Alliance characters minds is objective narrative fact when it agrees with your perspective. That is just silly - but popular.

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47

Look up the Geneva convention for Genocide, kiddo. I actually move forward for everyone to learn them. Ignorance breeds malice, unintended or not, and the mistakes of the past will repeat if they are not taught.

Orcs have already committed two genocides. Reeducation for their entire populace is entirely necessary for them to ever co-exist peacefully.

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48

Attempted Genocide is still genocide. Leaving a few around just because it would be a hassle to destroy them all is not what disqualifies genocide.

Please. Please learn what these words mean.

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49

I remember when the Forsaken, High Elves, and Night Elves signed the Geneva convention. How could they ignore George Washington and get involved in long term international politics!

And no one told them about the 13th amendment either! Azeroth has slaves and people born into slavery! Or the 1st amendment - a few nations have official state religions.

Because the World of Warcraft is bound to the Geneva Convention and the Magna Carta and every other Earth Law/Code/Treaty somehow…

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50

Uh, that would be literally every war in WoW, kiddo. Even the ones the Alliance started.

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51

Val wasn’t saying they were. They were saying the Geneva Convention can be referenced, by yourself and others, for what constitutes as a genocide.

Presumably, because a basic dictionary isn’t doing the trick.

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52

I mean we were doing that until a certain group of humans insisted on killing all the orcs.

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Massacre of Teldrasil or Genocidal Massacre of Teldrasil are the more accurate terms, rather than straight genocide.

On a side note Genn’s wife being their technically means the statement that only innocent civilians were in Teldrassil is inaccurate as well.

Not arguing that Burning of Teldrassil wasn’t an evil thing, just it wasn’t about purging the Night Elves but rather a tyrannical act perpetrated to try and subjugate the Night Elf people as a whole.

Lets also not forget that the civilian death toll in Ashenvale and Darkshore during the War of Thorns was as much on the Night Elves themselves that most of their able bodied adults went militia resistance and threw themselves at the Horde, hoping they’d bog down the Horde enough for aid to arrive.

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Yeah, how dare the Horde resist when the Alliance sends their armies to stop them from mining.

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