They were givin the ships for one thing amd then did another. Maybe that makes them defectors since they took military assests under faulse presences.
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Before BfA, the Zandalari had more reason to hate the Horde than the Alliance.
Vol’jin working against other trolls in Cata, Undead, Blood Elves, with Sylvanas being the Horde leader and all.
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Must be really awkward for nightborne, darkspear and huojin pandaren to just buddy it up with the zandalari just like that, end of discussion
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Not really, pandas forgive anything. Give them an ale after killing their parents, and they’ll forgive you.
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They had the decree of their king to go find them a new home. They went out and did that.
Not to mention Zul was still a member of Rastakan’s court after the fact and was never punished for it.
Its like saying Genns actions in Stormheim were not associated with the Alliance because he did his own thing against Anduins wishes.
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According to wowpedia
While King Rastakhan was in support of the plan to unite the lesser troll tribes after the Cataclysm, he was actually against the plan to revive Lei Shen.
Im suprised that zul kept his seat on the council after this, he either went against rhastakhans explicit wishes, or lost controle of th golden fleet. Either way, as a political rival, he should have been toast.
According to wowpedia
The forces of Zandalari in Pandaria are led by Prophet Khar under direct orders from the mysterious dark prophet Zul
We find out zul’s involvment through secret letters we find. Zul makes it appear as though khar took off with the fleet, khar is used as a scapegoat.
Differance between Genn’s actions and zul’s were mostly the intentions. Genn sought revenge for and to protect the alliance. He saw the horde as a threat. He didnt hide from his actions. Simply genn got mad and did a no no amd got a finger wag from anduin. Or did he? Was that who thing just swept under a rug?
I dont remeber if there was any commemt from anduin not to retaliate. At the time from alliance perspective the horde betrayed them. And didnt anduin take up mantle of high king after stormheim? So he couldnt have give an order to genn because genn was 2nd after varian.
Zul intended to not only go against the wishes of his king but to depose him, part of taking over azeroth was removing rhastakhan. Then zul hid his actions and pinned them on Prophet Khar. As far as i can tell genn didnt seek to lead a coup. He intended to protect the alliance, which in his eyes he did. Sul’s actions are abuot userping power, and in grand blizzard fashion convoluted and full of plot holes.
There wasn’t. If anything, it’s hypocritical on Anduin’s part to berate Genn and Rogers about this, because he unofficially gave them orders to tail Sylvanas’ fleet and engage if they deemed it necessary, and even supplied them with the 7th Legion to achieve this end. Had he outright said “don’t attack the Horde under any circumstance whatsoever” and the 7th Legion weren’t sent with the explicit possibility of an attack on the Horde, he might have some ground to defend himself and even possibly be able to court-martial Rogers for disobeying direct orders and misuse and destruction of Alliance and Stormwind military personnel and material, including the Skyfire amongst other things.
But he did neither of these, tacitly approved both the official and unofficial objectives and supplied the Alliance’s elite forces to help Genn and Rogers with these, so him chewing them out comes off as him back-peddling from the repercussions of the attack and trying to sweep it all under the rug.
Besides, who sends a detachment of some of the most elite troops the Alliance has to offer and the most powerful ship in the Alliance air fleet just to tail a couple Horde ships, Warchief or no Warchief? And led by two of the most anti-Horde and anti-Forsaken people in the Alliance to boot? If they supposedly weren’t meant to attack the Horde at all, the whole Stormheim operation was a complete logistical disaster on Anduin’s part.
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In any event, it certainly wasn’t wrong of the Alliance to hold the Zandalari, particularly Zul and any directly associated with him. He was the leadership of a troll supremacist movement which had the purpose of essentially taking over the world again.
They probably wouldn’t even see it as a political issue, as the Zandalari had proven as dangerous to the Horde as to the Alliance. Times change naturally, but to say the Alliance was wrong in their capture and imprisonment is silly. Honestly, it would take very few circumstantial changes to say that if the Horde had captured them, they’d probably be dead, and justifiably so.
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The major serious lore complaint I have with Talanji’s imprisonment? Anduin.
Anduin is there. He is on the look out as the Horde frees Talanji.
The idea that Anduin would allow for a princess to be locked up without some diplomatic conversation seems off. It does not square. He is overly aware of courtesies - even to the enemy. It does not seem right that he allows her to be imprisoned without some diplomatic conversation.
Zul, sure. Not Princess Talanji.
If Anduin was far away at Silithus, or following Locus Walker in the nether to learn how to master the Void - fine. Genn or Shaw would imprison anyone. But Anduin is right there with full knowledge of the situation. It just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Actually it’s explained that Sylvanas wanted the power of the Zandalari navy and Talanji wanted the might of Horde’s champion to help her deal with issues in Zandalar because she rightfully suspected that the Zanchuli Council wasn’t doing their jobs properly. So Sylvanas was focused on her present want for the navy and our rescue of Talanji was the key factor in Rastakhan allowing us to set up shop in Zuldazar.
Granted I doubt all the Zandalari were happy with it but Rastakhan loyalists followed his lead and Zul had his own do the same until it was time for the revolt. I like to think that Zul tried to use the Horde presence to bolster his own ranks.
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But Talanji isn’t a person. She’s a troll.
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Yes, I realize the “we needz the boats” plot point was a thing, and that reasoning didn’t make any sense, because nothing the Zandalari had been doing suggested they would be open to such an arrangement. They were basically a “mob race” whose interactions with the Horde had, since Cataclysm, been comprised entirely of invading Horde lands, killing Horde soldiers and trying to help the mogu conquer Pandaria.
If the naga or the mogu had suddenly gotten a bunch of nice boats, that wouldn’t mean it would make sense to spontaneously think they’ve become approachable and open to an alliance, when everything they’d been doing up to that point had made them out to clearly be hostile and unreasonable. As far as the Horde or Alliance were concerned, they should have been at war with the Zandalari ever since Cataclysm and definitely since MoP, because the Zandalari and their allies had been invading Alliance and Horde lands completely unprovoked and slaughtering their peoples both there and abroad.
But since they just had to become playable, that was all arbitrarily ignored and written off as “it was just Zul,” which still makes no sense because it means the Horde specifically rescued the very guy responsible for all that bad stuff and then his culpability was never really properly addressed again.
It was just handwaved as “oh yeah, that wacky Zul, brazenly disobeying his sovereign king, getting tons of Zandalari killed and starting wars against foreign nations without permission. We sure hope all that blatant insubordination and treason he’s already engaged in doesn’t mean he’s actually some kind of insubordinate traitor or something.”
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Except that doesnt make any sense when he is best friends with Chief steak, leader of the steaks.
He even tried talking and reasoning to Garrosh but for some reason he doesnt talk to a level-headed diplomatic princess?
I feel like the two of them could have easily come to some sort of arangement fairly quickly.
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Blizzard has been writing trolls as unlikable from the Alliance’s perspective. Talanji might be a victim of that.
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It was less that he hated them and more that it was a gesture to get Zul out of his hair. At worst, they fail and die. At best, they claim more land for the Zandalari. Regardless, he is seen as benevolent for not hamstringing his people trying to better their situation.
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Since we don’t know who first approached who, it’s very likely that it was Talanji who reached out first. This would make Sylvanas more inclined to see what she could gain from the situation (The Golden Fleet) instead of focusing on what past aggression by the Zandalari.
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Not for the Darkspear, but definitely for the Huojin. with the Nightborne I’d like to think it’s a mixed bag considering their relations pre-sundering.
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The Whole Talanji being captured by the Alliance is reasonable from an Alliance perspective. We were at war and she was traveling with Zul the instigator of that war and was princess of the nation looking to ally with the Horde.
However at no point did Anduin attempt to speak with her? Did she refuse to speak to the Alliance?
I mean he could take time to speak with Saurfang who was the Orcish leader and mastermind of the war of Thorns and let him go with no strings attached. However has no time to talk to this priestess who he has a lot in common with and release her.
Why the hell would Anduin decide that after capturing the princess and them invading our allies. That 8.1.5 would be a great time to invade their kingdom to try get them to agree to a cease fire and open up a dialogue.
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Vol’jin says: King Rastakhan, he be plannin’ to unite da troll tribes under his Zandalari.
Vereesa Windrunner says: Including the Amani?
Vol’jin says: Da Amani, da Gurubashi, all ‘o dem. He be dispatchin’ emissaries to every tribe.
Halduron Bringwing says: My scouts have reported nothing but quiet outside Zul’Aman.
Vol’jin says: Dey be holed up inside da ruined city, regroupin’.
Vol’jin says: Rastakhan be callin’ me his brother, but da Horde be our true brothers. We gotta stop him before he can sweet-talk the others into joinin’ his empire.
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I fail to see how this dialogue contradicts what the darkspear think of the Zandalari. Yes, when the Zandalari were trying to united the tribes, the Darkspear chose the Horde over the Zandalari because that would mean to abandon their allies. This did not mean that the Darkspear did not see the Zandalari as the priest caste, just misguided and arrogant.