Let me put it like this. As a warrior with essentially no threat talents (3% in defiance, big whoop), you’re putting out around 500-600 tps, which means your dps with the worst threat management (furys) can put out 550-660 dps (assuming there’s no innate threat modifiers to battle/zerker stance). Thats without salv or tranquil air
That’s more than enough DPS to hold you through till Naxx. Hell, patchwerk’s threshold for average dps is less than 400 per dps in order to beat his enrage.
Considering those threat values were checked by a KTM threat meter from when classic was around, yes. You should be able to trust those numbers unless you are that much of a contrarian.
I’m sure you have screenshots of those KTM readings from 12-14 years ago. Or are you just “remembering” what those values were, with that 100% accurate memory?
Even assuming that those numbers are correct, that does NOT negate the huge jump in threat generation that came late in vanilla allowing even classes with no threat dump to go full out, pedal to the metal with their DPS without having to worry about threat.
I’m not going to say it was all due to the shield slam changes, but something was changed that drastically increased warrior threat generation.
No, but it’s very easy to access the same files since they were available on EJ until they closed down.
I’m going to say it comes down to playstyle. Just like how dps players improved, tanks also improved. I wouldn’t be surprised if tanks back then prioritized heroic strike over sunder armor/revenge.
As to players “improving”, do you seriously expect us to believe that all of the tanks suddenly “improved” at the same time? Or is it more likely that there was something in the game that changed?
I don’t think all tanks improved at the same time. That’s why only <1% cleared Naxx.
On the same token, there was never any swarm of topics on the EJ forums with regards to this sudden invisible threat change. If there really was something so significant and gamebreaking, there would’ve been someone on them that would’ve noticed.
And that 1% number had nothing to do with the imminent release of TBC, which people already knew was going to include early greens that would surpass much of even Naxx raid gear?
How many players and/or guilds simply chose not to bang their heads against a wall learning those encounters and building up repair bills when much of the gear would be surpassed and trivialized by early quest greens in TBC?
Probably not–no. Vast majority of players weren’t anywheres close enough to kill him. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if the amount to actually kill C’thun was around <1% as well.
I don’t doubt that most guilds were not close to KT.
That’s the point, though.
Why would a guild want to bang their heads against a wall for months while paying those repair bills to further their progress in Naxx, or even AQ40, when much of the gear they could get would be surpassed and made meaningless by even early quest greens in TBC?
If there was something hidden in the patches, it would’ve been noticed by the min/maxers at the time. Especially something that late into WoW’s life where datamining/minmaxing was much more prevalent. Not all tanks increased in skill, which is why most raid content wasn’t cleared by most people.
Here’s some relevant theorycrafting on Shield Slam: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20765008192?page=3#post-48
I will add that while in that post I say 7-14% total threat increase as a number, that’s using T1 gear. As I noted in that post, a Warrior in Naxx gear will see a bigger increase because Naxx gear is loaded up with a lot more Block Value(which is where the bigger number comes from).
Plus, very little for a Prot Warrior actually scales in terms of threat. Shield Slam post-1.11 is the biggest one.
On a side note looking at the top parses for Patchwerk DPS by Warrior and Rogue on private servers I see that:
For Warrior Auto Attack is 33.6% of their DPS and they have +10% Hit.
For Rogue Auto Attack is 57.4% of their DPS and they have +11% Hit.
Pre-1.8 +hit on gear still affected your hit chance up until specifically the 19% additional miss from dual wielding.
Given that, the benefit of DPS from that change to those people was very minimal. No more than 4-5% total DPS, and that’s being pretty generous about it.
I have no real desire to do either tbh in the first iteration, but a Franken-patch #nochange (even though that combination never existed in vanilla in actuality) has as much logical justification as ‘vanilla with sprinkles’. Like I said, it’s always been about deciding which changes you are OK with.
In this case, IMO if you are going to nerf 1 class, might as well go whole hog… or not at all.
It also affected the base miss chance that all attacks had. It just didn’t affect specifically the +19% additional miss from dual wielding until 1.8(The patch notes even specifically stated it was the “increased miss chance penalty of dual-wielding”).
Sorry but this big deal that you’re giving other people crap for not knowing about is mathematically nowhere near as big as you’ve been claiming.
Realistically without this buff, you’d be looking at the top Fury Warriors doing ~1450 DPS instead of ~1500 DPS.
the base miss chance was only 5%. meaning it was still base 19% chance to miss which is awful. no warrior on private servers is keeping bt/ww on CD with 5% hit, there just isn’t enough rage generation.
if they can’t keep their bt/ww on CD, auto attacks make up even more of their dps, and because they can’t counteract the increased miss chance, their dps suffers even further.
Base miss was 5%, but it was increased by 1% for each level above you the target was. Since raid bosses were considered level 63, the base miss chance was 8% against a raid boss.
That’s where 27 comes from: 8 + 19 = 27% total miss chance.
Logs from private servers have Fury Warriors who are hitting at around 10% hit with 1500 DPS, a third of which is white damage. That means around 16 rage per second generated on average using the Vanilla rage formula, which is more than enough rage.
I’ve posted the math showing that 1.8 was not a big deal. If you want to argue that it was, you should probably come up with some theorycrafting of your own(which I’ll read in the morning. I’m going to bed now).