It is literally just some elitist warrior mentality that they just have to be top damage or the game is bad. Idk why they play sod when they can play classic and be in a raid with 18 warriors 8 rogues and 1 or 2 mage/hunter/locks. And be the KINGS they seem to need to be.
Every OG RPG followed the same design. Pures only do one thing and they do it well. Hybrids can do everything but not better than a pure. Its true for every game from Dungeons and dragons to Mario RPG.
Thats what gives classic its flavor.
Utility and versatility come at a cost. Atleast it used to.
Pretty soon class flavor will be eroded to the point its just retail lite.
Not saying hybrids should be in the dumps they should all be competing in the mid range just under pures.
I dont even raid havent really since P1. I just hate to see the game go down the same path retail has.
You did just read where I said It would be fine if rogues or hunters even mages was top dps.
I dont even raid, Its basic RPG design.
Sure for an RPG it makes sense. But the way raiding works in wow you spec for a roll and that is the only role you do. Itâs not like a boomkin is shifting into a bear to tank the boss. Or doing any significant healing. You donât utilize your entire kit in raiding. You just do a dps rotation or you tank the boss or you heal the raid.
The game doesnât revolve around raiding. Its an MMORPG. Plenty of people who play do not raid like myself.
This is true. Then my question is why do people pick hybrids? Is it because its nice to have the option to do everything?
You have access to 70% of any of your hybrid specs toolkit at anytime. Sure its not optimal but in PVP options is very valuable.
By your logic warrior shouldnât be #1 dps during vanilla and shouldnât be too in SoD.
Same goes for rogue, mage and warlock theyâre no longer pure in SoD.
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I posted above a true hybrid has magic and melee abilities. Warriors and rogues are not hybrids because they can be hit. Everyone can take a hit, not everyone can cast magic.
What an extremely toxic and absent-minded thing to say.
Even a hybrid requires basic tools to do the job viably.
In spite of the dull-witted opinions in this thread, it is a fact that druids still do suffer from Hybrid tax in SOD when in fact, they should not. Utility and versatility means you can do multiple roles at a time at a whimâs notice where needed. Druids cannot do that at all unless they have a talent to swap runes and spec in combat or a skill that allows them to suddenly cause a healer to become a full fledged tank or vice versa on demand, but they canât.
They can only do so before combat, or before the fight, and if they do, where exactly is the value in utility and versatality?
The fact is that, classes like druids require much more significant buffs for them to perform each specific role, and they should receive the significant buffs for them to perform each specific role. And to be honest, the round of specific nerfs to druids targeting their survivability was quite uncalled for and unnecessary.
If a druid is spending the same amount of time / effort (even more, especially when they have to deal with loot gatekeepers who share the same mentality as you) they should perform on par with the other classes / specs or even above and beyond especially when such a role requires them to specialize heavily into a specific set of talent tree and rune choices, taking away the option of so called âversatility and utilityâ.
Also, while on the topic on versatility and utility", warriors are considered a Hybrid class as they can tank, dps, and do an unreasonable amount of self-healing. Remove lifegiving gems, options to self-heal and diamond flask heal-scaling, and then we can come talk about versatility and utility.
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Oh Im sorry I guess it should not be considered they can completely change their role between each fight if they desired. That is completely worthless ya?
Like I said any Hybrid has atleast 70% of their other specs kit available to them at all times. Its especially valuable in PVP.
Umm your comparing a cheese diamond flask that requires a warrior healing set and to be out of combat to use vs hybrid versatility ?
Probably the least versatile option in the game 
If you dont like class identity you should probably go to retail. Classic is for players who like the OG RPG elements of classic.
And a good portion of the classes can do that in SOD. So what is your point? All classes now have that same value of in your own words:
which can be chosen before combat. Healing mages. Tank shamans. So where do hybrids fit again, and what value do they bring now, without specializing deep and specific into points, runes and gear exactly?
Lmao, you yourself said the term âcheeseâ and frankly, if even you think it is downright broken enough to cheese most things in this version of vanilla, you really shouldnât be calling outright nerfs to another class who ALREADY suffers from hybrid tax on top of the other 1,0001 things they have to deal with blocking their way of progression. This forum post being one of them.
Why do warriors have such a strong sense of entitlement in every version of Vanilla is beyond me .
I think you should take your own advice. OG RPG elements of classic dosenât mean that a game should cater or have a bias towards a broken, overpowered melee version of a class due to a poor decision by some class developer in 2005, especially in a modified version of a game where Classic + is the goal and polishing classes so they function correctly as intended is the objective. If you want to play a stupidly, overpowered melee class there is always the anniversary realms.
What a complete and narrow minded nonsense.
The warrior can fill two roles tank and/or dps so by definition the class is hybrid.
Seriously stop spreading weird elitist philosophy just because it suits you.
ManâŚpeople put way too much effort into this game.
I push buttons, stuff dies; am happy.
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Incorrect. Hybrid, and the tax associated with it, has always come from alternative roles providing benefit while in your current role.
I.e. when Im in feralas watching shamans solo farm chimerok steaks when that mob would kill a warrior over 5x over before it could kill the mob. Why? Shaman has high mitigation, utility, heals, and damage. If the warrior was playing arms instead of fury, the shaman can literally do more DPS as tank spec.
A shadowpriest being able to bubble, or go out of form and heal, is insanely strong. Even think about a different expansion like wotlk where an elemental shaman is one of the best dps classes for arena but it can offheal extremely well. A lot of POWER comes from the hybrid abilities. Mana into health is very efficient, and you often get cleanses, dispels, freedoms, and all sorts of other cool utility. Rogues and hunters at least have high dodge/parry and vanish, feign, and other ways to survive. Warrior just dies lol, they have one of the smallest toolkits for survival in the game.
All of a warriorâs defensive power is locked behind a whole set of gear (doesnt have a 6% no-crit rune or ability like other classes do) and your Tank talent tree. A dps specced warrior is among the most fragile class in the game, more than leather or cloth in most situations (a lot of damage is magic too). An arcane mage is maybe the only thing that dies easier right now.
Therefore, it isnt a hybrid. A resto druid however can go bear to gain mitigation and then moonfire you as you try to flee and finish you off, both defensive and offensive things that HELP it even when its a healer. A shadowpriest bubbling is a powerful tool even when it DPSs. A ret being able to bubble and heal to full is very powerful and it can use used while a DPS.
Unless you want to start giving warriors a way to convert a rage bar into multiple health bars for itself and allies, its not a hybrid. A rogue or hunter can tank stuff better and live longer under fire, so none of its âtankâ power is helping it. Likewise when it tanks it cant heal, and it does bottom barrel dps as tank so its not filling multiple boxes.
rogues/mage/lock have been kings for 20 years, if you want to use that logic, why are they also getting support in SoD?
You complain about the 2005 design yet everyone here came back for it, and most of the sod population left for the real classic experience.
You just cant accept your probably more fitted for retail than classic.
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A warrior, in world of warcraft, is by definition a hybrid. It can deals damages and tank.
Yes it can tank even if itâs not specialized in protection tree.
Now hereâs a gift : htt_ps://ww_w.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/20677330431-hybrid-tax/)
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This is current dev mentality obviously.
If you enjoy how current devs design the game, retail is for you.
Ill accept your logic and lets say warriors are hybrids. Are they they same level of hybrid than a shaman? What about druid?
There is a cost to your choices even at the selection screen. You pick a hybrid to be versatile not to do everyones job better than them.
Its so sad to see retail brains infiltrating a âclassicâ game and try to turn it into retail.
This is why sod cant touch fresh in population.
Thats not a hybrid. Warrior is multi-role. Here are some definitions from google:
- of mixed character; composed of different elements
- combining two different elements; a mixture
A shadowpriest being able to 2 shot you but then bubble and dispel or even go out of form to convert its mana bar into 5x health bars or more is a MIXED role. It also gives it more strength, making it good for questing, PVP, dungeons, etc. In any MMO, if a class that can do this does more dps than a class that cannot, and the class that cannon doesnt have any really strong special niches to make up for it, its bad game design and makes the latter class obsolete.
Warrior, more than any other class, is locked out of the benefits its other role provides. Its other role is âtankâ but as a dps it is the squishiest class in the game outside of an arcane mage. Rogues and hunters are both more âtankyâ than a warrior, so are they âhybridsâ? Well, theyre moreso than a warrior. Warrior is multi-role.
Also now rogue has a tank spec, mages have healer, and pretty much every class in the game has multi roles. What matters for âhybrid taxâ or âpowerâ is how much it applies to it when its in another role.
In WOTLK when I was an ele shaman and was insanely strong in PVP pumping huge damage, I could at any moment swap to spamming lesser heal and keep players alive, and I had a lot of passive mitigation. It was a very strong combination. If I also could keep up high dps during mobility and be the top in PVE raid dps, I would have just made playing any other class pointless.
The only way to make hybrids do more damage is to lessen their hybrid power. By Cataclysm, most of the classes start to be very homogenized, and as such they could remove a lot of the âtax.â
In response to this specifically (see my post above for the reality of the situation) this is from ghostcrawler specifically. He didnt join blizzard until 2008 which is 3 years after launch and a good 6+ from WoWâs development starting. He also isnt there anymore. He notoriously said bunk things and even when he went on to work at Riot he continued to say dumb things publicly like not even knowing what type of resource a champion would use but still had an opinion on how the wrongly named resource worked.
A huge problem with his explanation that âa raid wants DPS dealers, so it should go for the solo-role classes that canât swap off DPSâ makes no sense when you consider that a raid has a lot more room for DPS than a tank or healer. When he says:
The reason we want pures to so slightly higher damage is that pures can only fulfill one role. If your guild or raid has no more need for damage-dealers, there is no way for these classes to raid with you. By contrast, the six other classes always have the option to respec for another role either temporarily or for the long haul
Especially in original classic, you had 40 man raids. It eventually became 25. You have 1-3 tanks and 3-6 healers depending. In 2005 youâd have like 30 dps in your raid. If you wanted to tank in raid it was actually hard to do. There are only so many slots. Healing was less of a problem because there are more slots and less interest but the concept still stands.
This is one statement from one dev that has a long history of saying dumb things. The original, and primary reason a hybrid tax exists is because mana and healing/utility is INCREDIBLY STRONG. Shadowpriest, despite being low raid dps in vanilla, was an absolute power house in PVP and world play, dungeons, etc. The original game wasnt based on a damage meter, it was based on traditional class fantasy roles and most spells could be directly linked to something from magic the gathering or everquest.
If a shadowpriest cant bubble, dispel, or heal at all until it respecs or puts on a whole new set of gear, its not a hybrid, because its not mixed. Itâs multi-role. Mixed/hybrid means it can tap into both strengths at the same time, whereas multi-role means it has the option to take on a new role but that role doesnt affect its current power level. The tax that Spriest had originally was exactly because it was in a literal sense a hybrid (not ghostcrawlers dumb interpretation).
No it is not current dev mentality.
It is the definition of what hybrid means in wow and itâs directly given by one member of the dev team not a moderator or community manager.
If you donât enjoy SoD then 20th anniversary or hardcore server is for you.
Huh?
You talk about choices?
As warrior your primary role is tank not dps.
Oh okay, thatâs where weâre at.
So in order not to lose face, you invent a term.
A nice exercise in style.
Let me use Googleâs definition to see if itâs not exactly what Iâm saying.
- of mixed character; composed of different elements ------ Primary tank + secondary dps = hybrid
- combining two different elements; a mixture ------ Primary tank + secondary dps = hybrid
Incredible it works!!! Anyway back to the subjectâŚ
Ok let me see something⌠No way! It seems you are one of the best three tank in the game⌠Who would have thought that?
What kind of lie can you still imagine?
Once again warrior is a primary tank and a secondary dps and the two combined result in a hybrid.
As a warrior you can use your tank abilities without being deep prot or even put a point in it.
You canât pretend defensive stance/taunt/heroic strike/sunder armor/revenge/shield block/shield wall are all unusable.
You can dps or tank.
Is it optimized to tank as a dps? Hm I donât know⌠Deep fury prot rings a bell to you?
See above.
Plus a balance druid wonât be able to replace a restauration druid as a healer.
Thatâs not its role!
Same for feral dps druid wonât be able to tank as well as a feral guardian druid.
And it goes on for every other hybrid such as priest, paladin and now mages, rogues and warlocks.
Thereâs so much hypocrisy in your message just because you donât want to face reality.
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