😈 Warlock Leveling: Destruction?

Ok dude, I’ve been as nice as I can be, but this part is just a blatant lie. I suspect you’ve just gone overboard with hyperbole, but you’ve crossed the line into blatant lie territory.

I can pull 3-4 lvl 60 mobs (in silithus) and survive if I start at max health.

I can pull 3-4 green mobs and survive under most circumstances (but it costs resources).

However I have the benefit of gear and set bonuses.

If you’re leveling, this isn’t going to work. There is no way you’re pulling that many mobs at the same time and not having downtime.

Please remember that we’re trying to help people level here.

Uh… what? This is like saying seduction won’t help with a gank. You’re out of your mind.

Not only can DC help with ganks. It HAS helped with ganks. Repetedly.

Wrong about what? What is it you think I’m asserting here?

I presented two perfectly viable builds. You’re sitting here trying to argue that VW + Drain tank is bad. That’s incorrect.

I’m not interested in giving advice to speed runners.

I’m engi/tailoring, so those aren’t as good as they otherwise could be.

Then don’t lie to people.

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Uh… that’s not how this works. The fact that lifetap presents a net gain doesn’t mean Deathcoil is a net gain. Otherwise you should be applying this to drain life as well. Drain life already nets you more life than the mana it costs AND benefits from talents that give it 10% more life drained.

Curse of shadow is not available until level 44, at which point it’s 8%, and should not replace curse of agony. Only use CoS in single-target situations where you need to quickly recover HP without eating or bandaging.

Imp shadowbolt only applies if you crit with a shadowbolt. You shouldn’t be casting shadow bolts most of the time and you won’t have much crit… so that debuff is going to be VERY rare while leveling.

So, deathcoil is still at a deficit. It’s not netting you HP.

Also: stop casting shadow bolts while leveling or grinding.

The rest of your calculations are off for the reasons listed above and the fact that you need to do the calculation like:

final damage = ( [base damage] + ([shadow spell damage] * [spell damage coefficient]) ) * [shadow mastery] * [other modifier] * [other modifier] * …

The shadow spell damage coefficient is 21.42% (so 0.2142), and the only modifier that you should be using is Shadow Mastery (+10% or 1.1).

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While leveling i find that if i use succubus to CC a ganker (which 9/10 times is Undead), he will use WOTF and 100-0 me in the duration of the 5second immunity.

I tried questing with a FelHunter out but it isnt enough to win a fight vs an Undead caster, which again 9/10 times its an Undead Mage or Warlock. WOTF still wins while leveling. I reguarly get smoked by other casters because they can 2 shot me in the duration of WOTF especially Mages.

I tend to have better luck with the Voidwalker. It can be dispelled by some classes but it allows you the ability to survive those crucial 5 seconds of fear immunity in order to defend yourself.

Check put Kargoz drain tanker build for solo. He has a lot if experience and you will not be disappointed with the powerpoints.

Bear in mind that WOTF doesn’t break deathcoil or howl of terror since those are “horror” effects rather than fear.

VW sacrifice is pretty powerful too, though. It benefits from the improved voidwalker talents.

I still think the succubus is better for those situations, but VW is fine too.

You’re never fighting equal level mobs levelings. You should EXCLUSIVELY fight greens. If you’re fighting yellows, you’re doing it wrong. Maybe this is where the disconnect is coming from.

The type of mob matters too, if you’re looking to purely grind mobs, you want to face things with lower hps. There’s plenty of leveling guides that optimizes this concept.

I didn’t say it can’t, i’m saying it probably wont. There’s a lot of bads out there, but no one should be picking a fight with you in wpvp without being incredibly sure about being able to kill you. The Deathcoil is a 2m CD, it’s more valuable as a leveling tool than to never use it unless a potential gank happens. Even if it could have prevented a kill, it’s probably still worth it, and you’d have it for the next fight if he tries to camp your corpse.

My argument as repeatedly stated was that it’s not optimal, but still viable. You have argued against it, so you’re implying that VW is better. If you agree that VW is less optimal than succubus than you have been ignoring what i’ve been saying

Why are you tailoring? you should have dropped it when you made robes of the void, even if you want it for the ZF stuff, it’s WAY more efficient to pick up mining or herb and pick up tailoring after you’ve amassed your thousands of gold. Also JUST the vendor from bosses in mara is going to net you like 30g+ an hour, you can also sell ring runs though they’re probably way less in demand.

I’ve farmed felcloth/runes for my robes of the void leveling up, and i guarantee you it’s not pulling those numbers.

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Of course it does. You lose mana, you gain health, you lifetap that health into mana. The entire cycle results in a net gain of mana.

Right, I was simply going on the max rank of everything. At lower ranks and other situations adjust accordingly. It’ll still be a net gain, just less of one.

When Nightfall procs you should be using those when it makes sense. And with talents your Shadowbolt crit rate will be respectable. And this is all on top of other bonuses so the Shadow Vulnerability debuff is just icing on the cake. Will it be rare? Sure, but it is a bonus to look for.

The spell damage coefficient for direct spells is spell cast time (or global cooldown if instant) divided by 3.5. However, one thing I forgot is that mixed healing/damage spells are halved again.

With 200 spell damage:

coefficient = (1.5 / 3.5) / 2 = 0.429 / 2 = 0.214

(476 + (200 * 0.214)) * multiplier
519  * multiplier

At max rank there is 10% bonus from Shadow Mastery, 10% bonus from Curse of Shadow, 20% bonus from Shadow Vulnerability. Now, the question is are the buffs additive or multiplicative.

Additive it should be:

multiplier = 1 + 0.1 + 0.1 + 0.2 = 1.40
519 * 1.4 = 726

multiplicative would be:

multiplier = 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.2 = 1.45
519 * 1.45 = 752

Yes, this is under ideal circumstances. However, with Improved Lifetap you’re netting more mana than you spend before these bonuses. This is just extra gravy when you can line buffs up.

No dude. That’s not where the disconnect is coming from.

I already stated that while leveling, you should only be fighting greens.

And I’m saying you should switch your strain.

And my argument has ALWAYS been that both specs are perfectly viable.

Rolled tailoring for the guild for bag making purposes. It’s decent for raiding and ok for gold making. I’m not inclined to drop it any time soon.

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Your argument has ALWAYS been that succubus isn’t better.

You’re probably just doing it wrong, the very fact you don’t use DC while leveling kind of indicates you don’t actually know or understand optimal rotation in the first place. I’ve done it and other people have done it, which is where i got my information from, so the most likely situation is that your own preferences are getting in the way of the what the facts are.

That’s quite the noble sacrifice you’re making for your guild.

deathcoil is a net loss. Sorry dude. I don’t know what else to tell you.

You won’t have these talents.

Like… what are you even TALKING about? Why are you going down the destro tree to get Devestation in the first place?

For this calculation, you only get Shadow Mastery. You won’t be using CoS, and you will basically never have shadow vulnerability on the mob you’re deathcoiling.

So, for a leveling warlock,
(301 + (100 * 0.214)) * 1.1 = 355, which falls WELL short of the 430 Mana that spell costs.

Even with lifetap, you’re losing resources. Stick to drain life.

with Imp Lifetap, it’s about even. The bonus is that it hits really hard, and the horror effect. That’s 4-5 seconds (3 from horror 1-2 to run back to you) where you’re not taking damage, but they are. It also makes it less likely your drain life will receive pushback. They also take more damage than simply draining life, so they die sooner, meaning you take less damage overall from them even without the horror effect.

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Go back up to my original comment. Argue with that.

no u.

It means I can do the math and see that it costs more to cast than it returns in health.

It means it’s useful when I’m getting jumped.

I’ve done the math for you. It’s not complicated.

Would you like to see some guides that either don’t ever mention death coil or point out that it’s not mana neutral?

Nice. “my anecdote trumps your anecdote”.

Really? We’re down to trolling now?

And since it doesn’t count towards the mana neutrality of deathcoil, this statement is still irrelevant.

Stick to drain life. Keep deathcoil off CD in case you get jumped.

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You’re using imp lifetap in your build. So it’s absolutely relevant. And you completely ignored WHY it’s amazing. You drain life 1.5 seconds later, and you save potentially MORE mana because you can save yourself a potential 1-2 pushbacks on your drain.

The spell itself is mana neutral, but the effects aren’t.

You don’t understand the big picture or math. This is a great example of why you are probably not executing the spec properly.

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And that applies to literally everything, so it’s not relevant.

Drain life is better.

It’s like talking to a four year old.

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This is the way I’ve felt about you since you started arguing.

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Curious, how long did it take you to level to 60?

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One hour. I was the first level 60 classic warlock.

Please don’t stop, you guys