All specs seem to be performing lower mid tier in all content. Meaning, if you play your spec really well you will be slightly better than most specs played sub optimally.
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According to what I’ve heard, Aff and Destro are, at least, A tier in Raids.
I think they’re doing ok
Demo is our highest simming single target spec, and it has pretty consistent stacked cleave/aoe on a 1 min CD cycle
Destro is also decent both in single target and aoe. Although to get FULL potential from its aoe you need a tank to pull around your CDs
Affliction is probably the weakest in single target. In AoE it’s sort of meh. It has high burst, but its damage kind of falls off a cliff once CDs and dots fall. It’s also the most annoying to play (according to me) because it still doesn’t have great tools to maintain dots.
Overall I don’t think locks are B tier. Affliction probably is, but I’d rank Destro and Demo in either A- or A. They’re both good and you shouldn’t be bottom of the dps meters if you’re playing correctly, although a couple specs will still beat you if they’re playing correctly.
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demo feels great in all content lmao this spec is a blast
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From Experience so far in S2 Destro/Demo are A tier. I almost always top charts in M+ (I’m running 10s/11s) and usually top 3 in guild heroic raid. Demo is really great in M+ for most dungeons. Destro is fine in any of them, just play for ST cleave or AOE depending on dungeons. TOP is not Cinderbrew.
I could compare myself to the 0.1% of players and DPS charts, or I could use my 3 weeks playtime from S2 raid and M+.
Demo/Destro are in a solid spot right now.
It should be noted that Sims and Real World Application are usually quite different, which is why most Warlocks are playing as Destro and Aff rather than Demo despite it simming the highest single target damage.
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Demo right now is pretty much a ranged ret paladin with our 30s vilefiend + dreadstalker window doing comparable damage to wake of ashes burst with the new tier set.
We also have the extreme luxury of being able to play pure single target talents (aside from swapping gloomhound to charhound) in m+ which makes us incredibly valuable since our single target damage should be on the extreme high end for m+ comps. ATM, I think demo is incredibly underrated by the high end m+ community.
(of course other specs like unholy dk are an the rise and will see significant play soon).
For raids, we fill a niche (split cleave) and do it extremely well. Both mugzee and one armed bandit are extremely good fights for warlocks. Other than those bosses, we are average to above average – which is a good place to be.
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Pretty much this. There’s nothing much wrong with locks in the raid this tier (clunkiness and poor design choices aside) - but you just have to be happy with requiring more effort to do same or slightly less damage than the chosen specs doing a third your effort by rolling their face on the keyboard.
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I swear the amount of times I had to move from a mechanic where I was going to have a really good rotated tyrant only for a mechanic/affix to force move me and screwed it up it’s can cause some real unfun almost infuriating moments.
Where as pretty much most of my others dps specs or teammates regardless wether they’re a range or melee just clicks their burst button with barely any attention to procs/buff and send it, that’s pretty much it.
Demo is a tier in sim but not a tier in patchwork fight. Check 5th boss dps output it’s lower than most. Well that’s our highest swimming spec and it’s still lackluster.
Aff destro are good because they can cleave while others cannot in this raid. This in return makes them worse in keys.
Aff destro single target dps is just plain, AWFUL, only slightly above Aug.
I’d ignore the Archon tier list as its only got 3 tiers (excluding Aug) and it isnt based off real situational occurrences.
I can talk to Aff more than Demo or Destro but simply the TLDR is this:
Raids:
Aff is performing strong due to fights with spread cleave, Single target is bad but boss dmg is high due to spread cleave results in movement DPS loss for a lot of other classes. (Stix, One Armed, Cauldron, Rik)
M+:
The issue here is the CD timings linked up with shard gen. With DG being a 2 min CD and Soul Rot being 1min and VT 30 secs you have a huge shard gen issue UNLESS insurance procs.
Meaning when your grouping with Enh, Ret, Frost DH… one pack you’ll destroy, the next you’ll be doing less than the tank.
Simply Vile Taint is great however due to a lack of shards you cant get the full potential out of it. Link it up with DG and Soul Rot its so strong, but outside those windows everything will be dead when you’re still putting dots out manually.
The Fix:
People think adding an extra change to VT would work but then you’re still having shard gen issues. It feels bad to put out a VT with only 1 shard to burn after, meaning your hard casting Haunt and UA then channelling Drain soul to get MR procs and keep the +8% dmg up. Its a LOT of management thats resulting in huge downtime for a minimal gain of a MR Proc.
Short term fix is to have Insurance give a soul shard or 2 on proc… could help with spenders but still its proc reliant.
Dark Glare should also have more of an impact outside the Tier set… wihtout the Insurance proc again its a low performing class.
IS there a fix? Sure but its around shard gen for burst and getting Seeds out. Id love to see a capstone where a seed puts both Corruption and Agony out even at a lower dmg value i think this could help a lot in M+.
So are we B Tier?
Hell no, Affs D… and id assume Destro is worse if you have a standard Tier list ranking of S to F there is no way we sit in A or B for M+. Simply we dont bring anything unique except Healthstones which is why we dont get invited.
Interrupts are OK, 24 secs, then 40 second Shadowfury and Mortal Coil are all great and help a lot - very misunderstood from the M+ community.
Running with a group of ENH, Ret, FDK, you’re pulling 500k DPS less than them by the end of a run in a +10 or above, They will destroy packs with short burst CDs whilst you’ll be scrambling for shards and getting dots out. 1 out of 2 packs you’ll perform, but they’ll go back to back.
4 Seasons without significant changes to Aff and it being bottom tier is irresponsible for the Devs. its a class thats long forgotton but held up by raid performance of split cleave.
The lists being made by Archon are also irresponsible as it causes huge misconception of performance and what you bring, resulting in Meta comps and FOTM rerollers… resulting in a complete degen community that dont know how to actually play classes get invited over you.
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Locks are certainly not just “B” Tier.
Honestly, with all the updates this season, I’m genuinely enjoying playing my Warlock in both M+ and Raids.
Demonology is currently in an excellent place. It’s pure fun to play, and it’s dealing pretty solid damage overall in both Raids and M+.
I’ve given Affliction a shot, but it feels shard-starved during gameplay. It’s performing decently for me in Heroic raids (I haven’t tackled Mythic yet), but in M+, I wouldn’t recommend it for anything below a 10+ key—there’s just too much downtime. I might not be playing Affliction optimally, but based on other comments I’ve seen, I don’t think I’m too far off the mark.
Destruction is, well, Destruction. It hasn’t really changed much. It’s still the same and performs well in both M+ and Raids. Nothing exciting or new there.
Demonology is the standout this patch. It’s fun to play again and delivers decent damage in both M+ and Raids. I wouldn’t say no to a slight buff for Demo again, but honestly, expecting or asking for any Warlock changes from Blizzard feels like wishful thinking.