I’ve already got my audible copy ordered; I am for sure not the Sylvanas fan you are and I suspect your interpretation won’t be so off as all that.
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Arthas was evil. Arthas chose to follow the Jailer fully.
By the end of the epilogue in Arthas Rise of the Lich King. Arthas fully commits to serve the Jailer. The difference between him and Sylvanas is she would never serve, and she didn’t fully commit, she turned on the jailer when she realized he was never honest about his intention to break the Shadowlands, he wanted ultimate submission.
Like, this is the MAIN STORY of Shadowlands. How can you be this ignorant?
Arthas is the BENCHMARK of evil. That’s why she became Arthas in BFA, and why I will admit that she became a full villian in BFA. the difference between her and Arthas was he served, she didn’t, she managed to not entirely lose her hope. Arthas outright killed his own hope in the epilogue of Arthas Rise of the Lich King. this isn’t “new” canon.
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A lot of people myself included find it odd that someone under the influence of both the Sword and the Helm is unironically evil even though up to touching the sword they were saying and thinking the exact opposite of what they ended up doing moments after touching the cursed items.
Meanwhile, Sylvanas with a fully functioning brain and will power goes down the exact same roads as Arthas did and for some reason we have double standards playing out.
The lore flip flops. It gives contradictory information based on when or who produced the story. The messaging is inconsistent, there are plot holes and double standards we can park an aircraft carrier through.
You yourself have remarked on many odd decisions by golden and this new “book”.
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Still has yet to pop up in my library.
In retrospect I probably should’ve gone with audiobooks. I get through a lot of those in my commutes. But I swear the GPS has mastered a sense of comedic timing.
“She turned around slowly and said; In 1 mile slight right on Charleston Street”
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Arthas’s own internal choices lead him to choose to kill his own hope, thus severing himself from his last vestige of humanity.
That has been canon for fourteen years. Nothing has changed that canon. That is still canon.
Likewise Sylvanas was brought to the edge of killing her own hope, like he did, and she couldn’t. There’s still hope in Sylvanas.
This is not a hard concept to grasp.
Arthas did not kill his own hope until the epilogue of Arthas: Rise of the Lich King. Which means that Arthas was remdeemable up until he woke up from his slumber in the Frozen Throne at the start of WoLK, but not after.
(How is it that I know more Arthas meta, than self proclaimed Arthas fans?)
I made this meta so long ago it seems but it was accurate to what happened in Shadowlands. I knew it and I seem to have a good grasp on this story enough to havd predicted it. I made this meta when I first joined this forum way in Feb 2020, published it shortly after… and look where we are now.
https://wowloreaddict.tumblr.com/post/626106591224250368/killing-hope-why-arthas-will-not-get-
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His severing happened far after his iconic crimes.
If you were saying as soon as Arthas touched the sword, got mind controlled, fought off the mind control decided on his own to follow through all the horrible things he did anyway then you would have a point. But thats not what happened.
Killing your hope or whatever is not relevant, its just the latest excuse inserted to explain why Arthas is guilty and Sylvanas is not despite her having much less of an excuse for her actions.
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I got it on a free Audible trial credit, as the last time I used Audible was for BtS, and Amazon has a gold fish memory.
So I do not even have to feel bad I supported them if it DOES somehow turn out to be an absolutely wretched book.
According to some of the leaks about the book, Arthas was never controlled by the Jailer. Nerzul tried to take Arty over, lost, and everything was all Arthas.
Take from that what you will until the book is officially released, but it does back up the Jailer saying all past Lich Kings failed him.
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Yes, exactly, and Sylvanas was always in control of her own actions too. That’s why her actions have consequenses, and she still has to live and work through the shame and guilt of what she did, while trying to atone for all the hurt and suffering she caused others.
She doesn’t get her slate whiped clean. There is no tabula rasa for Sylvanas Windrunner. But she is given the slightest, and I mean slightest, gesture of hope that she could someday overcome all of this.
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I gave it some time, to kind of mull it over, and this is my thoughts.
It deserves no further explanation.
We don’t (didn’t pre retcon) need more to move past it. Sylvanas moved past it. Varian moved past it. Varian is dead. Sylvanas is in the maw. Anduin is all growed up. Sylvanas seemed genuinely interested in working with Varian at the Broken Shore, and seemed genuinely remorseful at abandoning the Alliance troops there. And she didnt even make that decision, it was Voljin under the influence of Mueh’zala (post retcon).
Even if it was a misunderstanding, it is an outdated explanation for historical Azerothian geo-politics. The only reason to dig it up would be to villainize or vindicate an Alliance that isnt even the present day Alliance. This would be a bad idea. It’s not Iran-contra. We dont need to know what they knew and when they knew it. Varian isn’t on trial. Hes not even particularly disliked, even by Horde mains and Forsaken fans.
The explanation of “Sylvanas sent emmisaries and they never returned” is perfectly fine! The only reason to bring it up in the future would be to reveal it was a plot to pit us against one another, to demonize an as yet unnamed villain. To divide the EK. And we aren’t really ready for another “Oh no, we were bith manipulated!” revelation.
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So her punishment is to feel bad about it.
I guess all the survivors who lost family, all the people that got wounded, all the people that died horribly and then went to super hell to suffer even for more should all take solace in:
Sylvanas feels bad.
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And like, to go to the Maw and rescue all the lost souls.
You forgot the actual punishment part.
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Her punishment is to clear the entire Maw of every soul. Even the Mawsworn, if she is to fulfill Tyrande’s requirements that she end up the only thing left in the maw. She literally has to empty hell of billions of people, by herself.
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That only covers this portion of my post:
I guess all the survivors who lost family, all the people that got wounded, all the people that died horribly and then went to super hell to suffer even for more should all take solace in:
Everything else remains on the balance sheet and her feelings have zero relevance on her actions.
How much more punishment can you give than spending (subjective) millennia emptying hell?
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there is plenty that can be done but my ideas are not relevant and are entirely subjective but what is undeniable fact is of the list I tallied only the last portion is being addressed meanwhile others are insinuating that the “shame and guilt” will have to make up for the rest of it.
Worse than that. Even Uther describes it as torment. The Jailer expected the Ranger General’s interaction with the Banshee Queen to break her completely. Without Uther, Sylvanas would be in a coma because of the mind breaking power of what Sylvanas now is (and arguably always was, but perhaps the jailer finished the job.) The ranger General was trapped in her mind with the Banshee Queen and couldnt even accept that the Banshee Queen was herself. She hated whatever it was that had her face. And then she had to accept that it was her.
And now, psychologically broken, and healing Sylvanas needs to get therapy so she can be rehabilitated… OH WAIT, THATS NOT WHAT HAPPENED, THATS WHAT DECENT HUMANS DO FOR THE CRIMINALLY INSANE WHO CANT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS EVEN IF THEY INSIST THEY CAN.
No… instead, before helping Sylvanas actually come to terms with what she did— to understand what was done to her and process what transpired— instead of helping Sylvanas heal and then attone, we banished her to hell with an unrealistic goal of processing every monstrosity constructed of soulstuff to find the souls that maybe shouldnt be there and free them… somehow?
What haters want, seems to be, a masochistic spectacle akin to the torture of William Wallace. Not for the purpose of punishing Sylvanas, but for their own sick entertainment and to discourage any future enemies of the Night Elves to think twice, lest Tyrande publicly disembowel and humiliate you before quartering your body and placing pieces in every corner of the Alliance empire.
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Its always fascinating to me to see people excuse and champion the villain than the actual victims. Maybe the victims deserved to die and suffer for bleeding all over Sylvanas.
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She is effectively imprisoned in the Maw while she is doing her task. I hardly doubt they intend to let her leave. She will just courtier souls to someone who then takes them on to the Arbiter.
“shame and guilt” also is a legitimate punishment approach. That is a big part of the original concept of a penitentiary: The concept was isolation, reflection, and quiet labor to reform criminals into productive individuals.
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It’s always interesting to me to hear complaints about what people knew would be Sylvanas’ punishment. That it was too lenient. Even when that punishment was expected to be death it was too lenient. The people who complain that Blizzard is just going to give Sylvanas a slap on the wrist almost never suggest what they believe would be a reasonable punishment because it would reveal the sick nature of humanity, when it identifies as a wounded beast.
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