Wanting to be hated

Actually, I specifically said the opposite.

Clearly the Bloodsail Buccaneers aren’t based on Carribean pirates because some of them are Worgen, and werewolves aren’t real, so how could they possibly be related?

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Oh my god, you mean to tell me I shouldn’t love the worgen, because they’re based on ancient European/Celtic stories and they obviously aren’t real?

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Even worse, she’s saying you can care about them even though they aren’t based on ancient European/Celtic stories.

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Oh while we’re at it:

  • Church of the Light with the Gothic cathedrals and Bishops? Not Western Christian representations
  • Goblins? Not based on antisemitic medieval depictions that reshaped folklore
  • Gnomergan? Not a metaphor for Chernobyl
  • Mekatorque getting a motor heart? Not meant to be Iron Man parallel
  • Stormsong Valley? Not meant to represent Lovecraftian themes
  • Drustvar? Not a Salem Witch Trials metaphor
  • Mogu and Pandaren? Zero relation to Chinese Imperial histories
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Okay, let me attempt to better articulate my position here.

Imagine being North American Indigenous. Imagine the Tauren being essentially a shallow snapshot of your culture, but not in any meaningful way. They have headdresses, they live in longhouses and Tipis. Just Hollywood BS that hijacks the aesthetic of your culture but nothing that makes it rich or meaningful.

Now, imagine constantly being grouped in with this. Imagine seeing people equate YOUR rich culture that is close and dear to your heart being equated to this shallow “representation”.

Would you feel represented? Or would you feel resentful?

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Honest to God the way you perceive the world is just medically fascinating at this point.

When you see Buggs Bunny do you go “Huh what a weird coincidence he has Bunny in the name because that thing talks and wears gloves so clearly it can’t be based on rabbits”.

It’s like you lack object permanence with concepts.

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If this is your stance now, which was actually a set up for a question, it is in contradiction to what you’ve previously said.

Edit: Benedikt, you’re killing me with these pop-culture references.

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They aren’t lmao Ona’hara was immediately recognized as based on “Thunderbird” myths when I explained Tauren myths to my Lakota, Objiwe, Dine, and etc friends.

The myths and aesthetics Tauren used (war bonnets reserved only for tribal heroes, totem poles meant to represent clan unity, great animal spirits who guide us, a mother child relation to the land, the use of a teepee or spirit walking) are some of the most important elements of the various Tribes that were used to create Tauren.

How ignorant can you be?

What do you think war bonnets are, what do you think totem poles mean?

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Well, y’all are putting words in my mouth rather than actually reading the things I have said. So… No, I don’t think so. But if you care to explain, go for it.

The North American Indigenous people that I know very well have said quite the opposite.

This isn’t my own perceptions, I am parroting something expressed to me. As I mentioned, I run a DnD game set in Azeroth, and I have talked, at length, with my friends who are Indigenous American, about the Tauren and their culture.

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What Tribe? Quickly

Yavapai Nation, I am pretty sure.

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Great that’s one of the Dine so relevant to the conversation.

And yet here we are.

Because using the most important/iconic motifs of all the major Tribes of the North American continent is not shallow in terms of what Tauren are representing and gesturing at.

The shallowness then comes from the actual story that Blizzard refuses to develop and give dignity to.

But the elements? All there.

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It’s almost like people have their own opinions on what they find fascinating in a modern video game or media. Will some indigenous people be insulted? Sure, that’s to be expected, considering how often it’s poorly portrayed by Hollywood,etc.

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Like operative word of Yapavi Friend™ is “shallowness”

If only Tauren then had depth :skull::skull::skull::upside_down_face::upside_down_face::upside_down_face:

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Look, culture is a difficult thing to talk about. Culture is something entire communities live within, and those communities are not a monolith. You can have 5 people of one culture in a room and get 10 different opinions and worldviews.

It is entirely possible some people might feel represented, while others not.

My point, I think, still stands. it is entirely problematic to declare a fantasy race as some kind of cultural representation. Not everyone will feel represented in that way, so I think it is important to draw a distinction between what has been influenced, and what was specifically meant to be a representative analogue.

As I already mentioned before (Which you guys have ignored for the sake of ad hominem and attacking my moral character and intelligence). You are well within your rights to feel any type of attachment to a fantasy race, especially if you recognize elements of your culture present in theirs.

What I have been saying all this time is… Again, these aren’t really meant to be representative figures, or meant to share a cultural identity. Your own attachments, your feelings, are really irrelevant to that. I think that distinction is important.

Because while you all might say Stormwind is a representative of European culture. I, in no way whatsoever, feel represented by Stormwind. In fact, I don’t think there is anything in the WoW universe that I am less attached too. Despite the fact that I am very much in-tune with my Northern/Eastern European heritage.

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It literally is a representation regardless of whether people feel represented, and if people the race is based off of don’t feel represented, that is in fact a problem of the narrative and game design

:roll_eyes: It’s not REPRESENTATIVE OF its a REPRESENTATION OF

For the love of god learn to read

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No, it really isn’t. Your people have a long history of racist villainization. I seriously doubt you feel represented by any of that, nor should you feel represented by that.

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So what you’re saying is… humans aren’t racist towards Trolls? Sure about that?

My snark aside, I can understand your point and appreciate you shared your story with us.
For me though those things are a part of the Warhamemr universe and very much so. It’s nothing I have interesting in aside from fantasy universes. It’s also a wish that the Alliance shouldn’t be only reacting and bland, the only true heroes and good guys.

Well thankfully this will not happen and with this sentence of yours my interest in this topic died.