Nobody said it doesn’t exist…I said we can stop relying on them to tell a good story. But way to respond to what WASN’T said though’
Stop responding to things you THINK was said
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Micâh, if Genn dies and Tess becomes a worgen, is it acceptable or not?
Sure. But what does that do with anything?
Well not exactly. Tyrande wants only Sylvanas and to reclaim NE territory back. Other than that eventhough she hates the horde right now, and rightfuly so, she has shown to be ablo to at least tolerate them as long as they don’t set foot in her lands.
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world of peacecraft
In Micah’s defense (and correct me if I’m wrong) but there’s a difference between telling a story involving racism, and using what are deemed racist tropes and I think she was only talking about the latter. Which would be stuff like the game going on about stinky orcs and trolls, or the brokers being spin-offs of the Living Turban ethereal shifty merchants, etc.
Like, look at Wrathion. If he wasn’t a black dragon, I’d half-expect his flying mount to be a magic carpet.
Edit: Okay I think my interpretation was off-base.
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*gestures vaguely at the past ten years of Horde writing *
Well you have two options: convince Lydia Bottegoni and Danuser to perform necromancy on the Horde story, or make a push to have the Alliance be in the narrative mud with the Horde so things are more equal.
I’d rather WoW contain elements of real life like it used to that motivate characters to do terrible things. Otherwise you get whitewashed “everyone is perfect” WoW
You never know. My sweet ravings like this idea of bringing back the pride of the worgen curse in this way. Especially if they were betrayed by their saviors, the night elves. Now Gilneas must defend itself and again step on the rake of this curse, but this time - they will take this rake and make it the center of their culture, for the dead king!
Ok, but again…how do you propose to do that when two of the more recent “additions” to the “modern” Alliance were literally there the first time around, one of which is your own king?
Or do I need to remind you that Genn Greymane once referred to high-elves as “demi-humans”?
The racial prejudices are already there, whether you like them or not.
They’ve always been a part of Warcraft lore, if we’re being completely honest.
Nobody is perfect, I think we all know that. And the horde story does need help, but using old and dated racists tropes to justify villian batting them isn’t doing anyone any favors and you of all people should know that.
Being a flawed person is not the same as being a racist, I thought people knew the difference by now.
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I’d rather not simply because I do not trust modern day Blizzard writers to write a compelling story about it. It’s would be like trying to explain a toddler quantum mechanics.
Although…that’s the general problem really. No matter how the story goes, if the writers are bad it won’t change.
Sure but the flaw needs to be parallel the Horde’s flaws, and “internal political melodrama” like many in this thread suggest doesn’t cut it.
It does not serve as equal to “genocide”. “Violent racism and classism that leads to repeated murder and attempts to subjugation” does.
Well, first off, Genn is a fictional character and not My king so we can stop with the roleplaying and he called them demi humans once, 15+ yrs ago, people do change
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I don’t, if Battle for Azeroth and the subsequent player toxicity is any indication.
Except no one is talking about villain batting the Horde.
We are, however, talking about how the Alliance used to be the villains, and a group of racially-prejudiced ones, at that—this was literally the setup of both Warcraft III games, and even continued through Vanilla WoW and into Wrath.
Now who’s reading between the lines?
I don’t think anyone here has said, “everyone who is flawed must be racist.”
Correction: people can change.
Call me cynical, but Genn hasn’t demonstrated much potential on that front, given his continued warmongering.
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…I mean…by all means but that’s stretching it. The Alliance had perfectly fine reasons for everything they’ve done or did in the past.
And the problem becomes that, because of the overall story-writing, the prejudice of the Alliance comes across not as prejudice but as a reasonable stance considering that the Horde started two world wars in five years and the population of the Horde is overall seemingly fine with following into these wars, if we consider Therons statement in Nazjatar that Sylvanas has the support of the people.
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Well, at the very least there were suggestions from dwarfs to destroy the horde, and if night elves indeed in the story believe that their trust was betrayed by both the horde and the alliance, then they might even consider that the good old empire days actually had something about it.
So, even without digging anything out, like irresponsible experiments of gnomes, void elves, intrigues of noble houses, or adding an allied race who would be a big “wth” moment for the horde, there are options within the story.
Plus, keep in mind that the story of BfA did not go in the direction of Jaina figuring out that there was a point in Daelin’s actions. And Anduin also speaks negatively about them. So, taking this route while Jaina has the head of her shoulders is IMO less likely than the other things that have some seeds in the story already.
Times are not the same as early 2000s. Industry is not the same. Developers are likely largely are not the same as in Warcraft 3 days.
There are legit gripes that the alliance has. And the faction should have flaws, ideological differences with the horde, etc.
Turning (not sure who exactly, if new or old characters) in the suggested direction when BfA could go there yet explicitly did not, might be a bit odd way for the story to evolve. Not that WoW never had questionable decision when it comes to the narrative, but I am not sure that’s a good way to tell an interesting story.
gl hf
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For the fixation of past narratives, Micâh already responded to that:
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“The Alliance was justified in concentration camps”
-Local Human Paladin
“Exterminate the Horde”
-Local Night Elf Player
Everyone just ignore these people, not worth it.
Sometimes things are bad regardless of your reasons for it. Ethics 101 yall.
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…
I…
I can’t even…
You do understand that the alternative was to execute each and every single orc? You do understand that the Horde had just gone on a rampage throughout the entire Eastern Kingdoms slaughtering thousands of innocents?
I mean what exactly do you expect the Alliance to do with an entire race of warmongers?
Sure over time the effects of the felblood started to fade, and someone like Antonidas actually looked into this phenomenon. So, the Alliance wasn’t wholle unaware of the situation.
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Pretty sure that’s stretching it. They had “perfectly fine reasons” for:
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Incarcerating orcs in camps and placing said camps under the control of a morally-corrupt nobleman, who proceeded to turn said camps into a gladiator ring
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Tolerating/encouraging racial prejudices against any of their non-human allies (the Quel’dorei, the dwarves, etc.)
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Exiling, on pain of death, anyone who openly showed mercy to an orc (see: Tirion Fordring in Of Blood and Honor)
These are the three biggest examples, but there are plenty more to show just how inherently-corrupt the original Alliance of Lordaeron was.
I’d like to think that an objective reader will still recognize prejudice for what it is—imo, the story should challenge you to think about whether or not you approve of it.
Especially considering the turning point that occurred with Reign of Chaos and Lord of the Clans.
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