how do rets feel about a majority of their damage coming from Wake of Ashes and Blade of Justice/Expurgation. and not Divine Storm? also in single target a majority of damage coming from Justice/Expurgation.
personally i like the whole “big hits” feeling of ret paladin of old. i don’t like the fury warrior esque rotation for ret, if i wanted to play a fury warrior I’d play a fury warrior.
overall wake of ashes feels like the same problem i have with all warrior specs where you have a big button(roar) you press and forget that does a lot of damage, no meaningful skill behind it.
wake is 10-15%
blade is 10-15%
divine storm is 10-15%
again you’re ingoing Expurgation exists. overall wake and blade is 20-30% of your damage in AoE.
wake is 7%
blade is 10%
final verdictis 20%
your finisher does 3% more damage than your builders in single target. and that isnt counting judgement and crusader strike.
I’m saying rets spenders do no damage comparatively to how much more damage builders do which makes the reward structure of building/spending meaningless.
It’s not semantic when its not even close to being true, I’m not splitting hairs here.
It’s not like it was 49% of our damage and I was being pedantic.
It’s at most 30% with Truth wake, Wake, Boj/BoV and Expurg.
It does 3% more than 2 other abilities combined…
Ok, sure, that’s how you feel.
A non-significant amount of people kept saying before the rework that they wanted the builders to be relevant both rotation wise and damage wise.
We have struck a very interesting balance.
Spenders are still our top damage and no singular abilities does more.
I’ll give you this though, BoJ ST and BoV aoe are both equal in damage to the baseline spenders (TV and DS).
Not too sure what’s happening in this thread. Haven’t played ret in S4, only Prot and Holy. But there haven’t been any changes I’m aware of.
When specced into Vanguard of Justice and Tempest of the Light Bringer, and factoring in Improved Judgement and the tier set, and Blessing of Dawn, Divine Storm is significantly more damage per action than Blade of Justice.
For reference, Blade of Justice does 166% AP to primary target and 93% AP to secondary targets. It applies Expurgation for 51% AP (or 100% AP with the tier set). So on 5 targets, that’s 1038% AP per action, assuming expurgation doesn’t get overwritten.
With bonuses listed on Divine storm, it’ll do 1305% AP damage per action on 5 targets. You won’t be able to get all bonuses all the time, but even if you miss one bonus you’ll be on par with a Blade of Justice. Plus, these two spells don’t even directly compete - you gotta use Blade of Justice to get holy power anyways…
Divine storm made up 30%+ of my damage last season in keys. The multipliers available for your holy power spenders makes them very powerful.
Expurg will apply to all target hits, so since BoJ is soft capped, it does make Expurg uncapped but that’s it.
Divine storm is soft capped at 5 as well, but Tempest of the ligthbringer isn’t, which is 18.3% AP instantly going out on all target compared to 51% AP over 6sec and further application only set back the dot back at 6 sec so you can’t stack those.
Our Damage spread is the way it is specifically because Blizz wanted to move us away from our filler spells doing no damage while our finishers were doing all of it.
Our spenders still have the highest contribution % of our abilities.
I much preferred when spenders hit significantly harder than generators. I know overall meters show spenders as the highest damage source. But when I look at my damage numbers it is sad to me to see the damage of spenders and some generators being similar. Why have a builder spender class with damage being not very high in the spenders?
Your top ST dmg dealer is supposed to be Final Verdict. Mine is. Wake of Ashes does an incredible amount of dmg, so it’s always going to beat Divine Storm. I’m okay with it.
There is more skill to best use WoA than Casting Judgement on targets you are facing away from. WoA is no more fire and forget than any other builder, I’d argue it is less fire and forget. Your current other buffs availability and current Holy Power amount is considered before and after it’s cast, a one of the shorter range abilities you also have to aim to a degree, I’m not sure just how difficult you want it to be to make it not feel “fire and forget”.
Personally I don’t want to play an often dispelled in PvP DoT Paladin either. Big powerful WoA, FVs, Judgments, and HoWs is how I like the spec.
agreed, i can now play ret paladin without even looking at my screen and still out DPS people, its so laughably easy and boring. was fun for a few months and after that i just dropped my paladin all together.
not true, during divine toll you have to make sure to not overlap judgement debuffs, where as wake of ashes all you do is press it every 30 seconds, there is no skill to that.
only argument you could make is niche fights where adds spawn in the next 40-50 seconds but thats just padding and should NEVER be taken into account for realistic performance of a spec.
I’m not sure I follow, its not like the damage profile shift introduced an incentive to playing your rotation incorrectly as you had before ie: not overcapping.
since your builders also do damage, if you over cap it doesn’t matter because they do damage. its quite simple, your spenders have less of an impact because “everything does damage”
With five holy power slots i think you have to be an actual lobotomite to overcap holy power that much. I dont think it really makes that much of a difference.
Skill expression with paladin comes from using its utility to the max. I dont think many classes have a difficult rotation once youve put the hours into getting the muscle memory down.
I disagree with your oversimplification and comparison to fury warrior but I wished more of my damage came from finishers and not just boj. Blizzard went the other extreme remember back in bfa fnishers were huge in damage distribution leadin to builders feeling like filler.
I would also remove the high autoattack damage and put that into skills I actually press. This was a SL change iirc and I hate it