Void’s connection to Undeath (Potential Spoilers)

Lore Story Forum
1

I am very confused if the Void is supposed to be unrelated to undeath/necromancy. There seems to be a lot of evidence pointing in the exact opposite direction.

  1. Chronicles Describes the Void as a destructive entity that is “dark and vampiric”.
    (The world Vampiric is usually associated with Undeath, Necromancy, Life Draining, and Soul Stealing in folklore and fantasy)

  2. Dreadlords:

  • The Dreadlords were original demons created from the clash of Light and Shadow (Void)
  • Dreadlords are vampiric beings and masters of shadow magic. (Like the Void)
  • Dreadlords are known to fight from the shadows using tactics like- possession and emotional/mental manipulation of their victims. (Similar to the Old Gods)
  • Dreadlords have experimented with necromancy, first during the War of the Ancients (https: //wow. gamepedia. com /Scourge) and later, aiding during the creation of the Scourge (Connection between Shadow and Undeath)
  1. Galakrond, the progenitor of dragons:
  • When Galakrond went mad he began consuming and draining the life essence his fellow proto-dragons. (Madness and Vampirism- common traits of the Void)
  • Those consumed by Galakrond became undead
  • Galakronds misadventures happened in Northrend a land tainted by the Old God, Yogg-Saron, and the bastion for the Legion (before revolt) and the Scourge
  • Apparently, Tyr implies he might have had a hand in Galakrond’s transformation. This could be true considering Titans and Titan constructs were known to experiment with Old Gods and battle their forces. Tyr was especially keen on Old God corruption and had plenty of experience fighting the minions of the Old Gods
  1. Ner’Zhul/Lich King:
  • Northrend
  • The Lich King’s creation is directly related to the machinations of The Drealords; especially Frostmourne and the Helm of Damnation
  • In Wod, without the influence of Kil’Jaeden, Ner’Zhul pursues a path of Shadow magic; still leading him down the path to soul stealing and necromancy.
  • Maybe Shadow magic is the reason the Undead were not swayed by Yogg-Saron?
  • Employed and created Val’kyr and Varguls (Both Undead Vykrul)
  • Matthias Lehner questline and the Heart of Arthas
  • Created San’Layan- literal vampire elves. As of Legion, the curse of vampirism seems to originate with the Vykrul. Thus, establishing another connection between the Vykrul and Undeath. Also, Vykrul were originally supposed to be vampires early on in Wrath’s development
  1. Helya
  • First Valkyr- process involved Odyn going into the Shadow Lands
  • Rebelled against Odyn with the Help of Loken, an Old God corrupted Titan Watcher
  • Fallen Valkyr – similar idea to a fallen angel, dwells in her own abyss
  • Created Kvaldir, Seafaring cursed souls
  • Created Helheim- spooky place of lost and damned souls, mainly inhabited by Vykrul souls, Valkyr, Kvaldir, and Varguls (I believe)
  • Odyn’s version of the Valkyr are exact opposite of Helya- bound in Light and more angelic looking. Even the Spirit Healers maintain a more angelic appearance and demeanor.
  1. Tidesages:
  • While most of their magic is related to the elements, their metaphors and understanding of the seas contain elements of Light and Shadow.
  • The dark watery depths from which the minions of the Old Gods come from are referred to as an abyss. The naming has to be an allusion to the Void. Also, Don’t the Tidesages also use the abyss damning souls?
  • When guiding souls into the afterlife, tidesages often use lantern; similar to how a lighthouse’s light guides a ship back to home.
  • Not to mention their whole storyline revolving around combating the Old Gods.
  1. Drust:
  • Employ shadow/necrotic magic
  • Bind souls to wicker constructs
  • Not sure if still canon, but apparently are descendants of the Vykrul (https: //youtu. be/8nGnT6WZbeI?t=378)- can’t include links yet :frowning:
  1. Shadow Places like Souls (If they aren’t all the same place):
  • Shadowlands- Lost souls, Spirit Healers, Bad Players
  • Helheim- Domain of Helya
  • Thros- Realm of Drust, Undead Wicker Constructs, tortured Souls
  • Wherever the Hell Uuna was taken by the void- In this realm are shadowy figures using the pale orc model. Interestingly, Pale Orcs were orcs corrupted by Void magic. These figures are also labeled as undead.
  1. Light:
  • Is effective against fel, shadow, and necrotic magic- All magic associated with the Legion, Scourge, and Void. It is odd that the Light is seen as the antithesis of these entities if the Void and Death are not related.
  • A more recent example was in the Uuna scenario. The Light in Uuna’s scenario helps her ward off the undead shadow figures that try to capture her. Furthermore, the afterlife of her parents is depicted as being a place of light
  • Uuna defeats Baa’l- shadowy demonic goat, named after the Canaanite deity and demonic entity Baal. Plus, most of the secret mounts and pets (excluding Uuna) since legion have been related in some manner to the Void (Fathom Dweller, Riddlers Mind-Worm, Lucid Nightmare, Baa’l)
  1. Death Knights:
  • Get their mount from going to the Shadowlands
  • During the Legion Campaign, they return to the Shadowlands to retrieve souls
  • The steeds of the New Horsemen are related to the Dark Riders (created by Sargeras), Headless Horsemen (created by a Dreadlord), Attumen the Huntsman (not sure on origin, but in Kharazan, filled with demons and undead. Also, has a horse named midnight)
  • When a Death Knight resurrects a player, he or she retains a ghostly state while receiving a debuff that says “Void Touched”.

Miscellaneous stuff

  • The Priest Legion Legendary, Heart of the Void, flavor text says “The Void is not empty. It is full of malice, despair, and death”.
  • The most recent Brawlers guild storyline involves a Dwarf (not sure if same race on horde) named Shadowmaster O’Flannerty. He is feeding souls to a Void like entity that uses the Yogg-Saron model. Not to mention the main antagonists is an Ethereal and an agent of another Ethereal connected to the Void. Although, it seems to be not clear if the Brawlers Guild is now canon.
  • I can’t remember if I saw Void creatures during the Drust Questline in the Algerson Lumber Yard
  • G’huun, an Old God Titan experiment, has associations with vampirism. Adherents practice blood magic and cannibalism.
  • Mogu were Titan constructs that also dabbled in blood and spirit magic- magic close to necromancy

Lastly, Old Gods (massive fleshy entities) are responsible for the Curse of Flesh. All living flesh and blood beings are susceptible to Undeath because of said flesh and blood. Why would the Old Gods bring this curse if it makes their creations closer to the domain of their enemies?

TLDR: Lots of connections between Void and Undeath. At the very least, undeath should be a domain of the Void, like Life is associated with Light. Maybe a rogue Void Lord responsible for Shadow v. Death disconnection?

2

It probably is connected. I may be basing this off something I saw in the past but I imagine magic schools in wow like a venn diagram with the major overarching ones like light, void, arcane, nature, etc being the categories and the overlapping ones making up the other schools of magic.

3

I agree. I think like they have to be; especially considering the Light and Void created everything in existence. Although, I see Fel, Shadow, and Undeath as something emanating from the Void, while Arcane, Holy, and Life come from the Light.

4

The Light has created Light Undead… Death is not the same as Shadow despite being used alongside it.

As for why Undead created by the Scourge is harmed by the Light: Classic’s Questing states that the Scourge Plague is formed from Demonic and Necromantic Magics. Furthermore Ner’zhul uses Void even as the Lich King as shown by The Blades of the Fallen Prince’s questline.

With the Scourge being formed from mixing Death Magic with either Void or Fel Magic it’s no wonder the Undead originating from it feel pain when exposed to the Light.

As for why Fel feels pain when exposed to the Light: Fel users react to Void the same way as Xhul’horac proves. When Fel and Void touched they explosively repelled each other.

Death and Fel are both separate Magics from Light and Void. Arcane and Life on the other hand seem to be shades of Light Magic it seems being born from sparks of Light just as the Naaru were.

Of course it’s interesting how Death has a foothold in the Void according to the Priest Legendary in Legion(Heart of the Void). Guess that explains Yogg-Saron being a God of Death… It seems the Old Gods are split between the forces of Void/Shadow and Death.

Death of course has it’s own realm separate from the Void and the Shadowlands which of course is a bunch of nightmarish Realms of Decay(Decay is Void according to the Dark Shaman Quests in WoD Nagrand). Of course for Death to reclaim it’s followers within the Void it needs the Void unsealed.

5

Something to keep in mind is that technically speaking, within the Great Dark and Twisting Nether all of the cosmic forces are related. None of them function in a vacuum; their interactions and overlapping influences are basically the “gears,” “oil” and “fuel” by which this grand machine of existence operates.

So while Void and )possibly/probably?) Light exist in fundamental “pure” states outside our reality in their own realms, when their associated energies do various things within our reality they are by definition affecting change by interacting with the other cosmic forces. When either one heals, it’s interacting with Life; when either one kills, it’s interacting with Death. When either one suspends a being in a state that’s neither alive nor dead, it’s interacting with the balance between Spirit and Decay.

1 Like
6

I thought it was the combination of light and shadow that made the Lightforged Undead? I was under the impression that it was the two forces working in conjunction each adding an element of their own.

That is a good point about Fel and Void. Although, I wonder if Fel is supposed to react violently to Shadow as they come from a chaotic source. Nature/Life, Light, and Arcane are meant to mix as they come from a force of unity.

I would guess that a Death Lord is a Void Lord or somehow related to it. The forces of the Void seem to be against one another as much as the others.

Edit
I guess replying to Raselle counts as a double post? It says I have to wait for another user to post first. Kind of disheartening, I’m just trying to reply.
Anyway, I was going to say- Exactly, that is what I meant earlier about each school of magic emanating from either Pure Light or Pure Void.

7

Anduin specifically notes in the Novel that Calia’s eyes have no Shadow so that means that that the Void(which according to the Chronicle is Shadow) is separate from Death.

Death having a foothold in the Void is not surprising since the Void Lords aren’t all on the same side and thus some would side with the forces of Death.

The Light striking a bargain with Death as N’Zoth claims in Crucible of Storms is of course much more terrifying since it implies the one future that the Light as a whole seeks is one where Death has won! In otherwords only few Void Lords have sold out to Death in their madness while the Light as a whole has sold out because destiny says so!

1 Like
8

Interesting. Do you have the specific page? I’m curious.

Although, not having shadowy eyes doesn’t mean she is devoid of shadow.

As for the Light striking a bargain with the enemy of all, I would guess it is a wait and see type of event. The Old Gods are known liars and often twist truth. So I wonder what this truly means.

9

There’s a few assumptions being made in this assessment, if we assume Calia’s return to be a death-and-light agreement.

Most importantly, it assumes that the prominence of undeath is something that a purely death-aligned entity would want. Some of the most purely death-ish entities we’ve seen (such as Bwonsamdi) seem inclined to think that undeath is actually an aberration, and the opposite of what they want. It makes sense when you think about it; undeath is a way of rolling back death, and preventing things from truly dying.

We often conflate the ideas of death and undeath, but it’s entirely possible that these two are in conflict with one another. In the Chronicles cosmic alignment diagram, they do sit in the same area, but I wouldn’t assume that this means that they’re in cahoots; if necromancy is a manipulation of death as a cosmic force, it could still be the case that death is something that fundamentally doesn’t like being manipulated.

Now, if we’re thinking about what each party actually gets out of this arrangement, it’s entirely possible that the give/take arrangement is, accordingly, the opposite of what we might assume. If we assume that the two are bargaining for mutual benefit, then the interpretation you’ve made is (correct me if I’m wrong here!) that the light has conceded to allow or support undeath, something it previously would have erred against, in order to further its own agenda.

However, if we assumed that death doesn’t like undeath, it could mean that the light wanted Calia to stay (or to return), and that it’s death that has agreed to that request - something it would normally not agree to - out of convenience, to further its own goals. What those goals may be is an open question, but it could be that some entity is trying to do something that death might not approve of (for example, propagating mass undeath?) that’s so extreme that it’d make “letting go” of Calia worth it.

In short, there’s some very broad ways in which we can interpret the idea of a light/death bargain. For example, it could be far, far more benign than we may be inclined to assume, and may be less about propagating death and more about stopping something that seeks to propagate undeath. There’s no evidence of that, obviously, but my point is that we should exercise some caution when interpreting the light/death line; we have very information little to go off when trying to establish what “death”, as a cosmic force, truly wants, which makes it very difficult for us to infer the motive behind its bargain.

10

You bring up a really good point. I don’t know if I made it clear in my post, but I was trying to separate Death from Undeath.
Ironically, I see death as a part of life. It is, as you mention, the natural order.

The only weird thing is that the cosmology chart has a death sphere, but its magic types are listed as necrotic and its entities are represented by the undead. I am not sure if that is intentional.

Also, would a lightforged death protect one from Undeath? Since one has to die before being raised into undeath, then maybe a light death prevents one to return as undead.