I feel like it’s rather fitting for this forum about Void Elf / High Elf customization options that it be about arguing about Blood Elves, as it’s always been…
I get the feeling that we’ll continue to request hair styles and changes to entropic embrace, via glyph or something.
Yeah, Sylvanas is a font of moral righteousness. 
You mean the thread that was quite literally made as a troll (and later editted) to declare that void elves deserved all the blood elf stuff? That that thread is talking about blood elves?
Doesn’t make her factually wrong here.
I forgot mentioning the need for clarification over why blood elves had green eyes was frowned upon by some people and green eyes is viewed with shame.
That’s the, “Are we the baddies?” conundrum.
It isn´t shameful, butr the OCD need to use it as a “gotcha!!” IS frowned upon.
Like you know… the poster that originally brought the issue in the thread did. She basically tried to imply Belves were different cause they drained Fel or GTFO (which as you learned today, is wrong ^^).
I don´t mind the green eyes, heck I USE them and not despisethem like I do the Golden ones. However I don´t appreciate how people uses them to create this artificial distinction that´s not even in line with current canon lore (poster eithe try to transform Belves into this weird “Lightforged” long eared Humans OR use the Fel to point how “evul” they were back in TBC -and the whole redeem issue… seriously guys, ask yourselves. When Veeresa mentions “Belves can redeem themselves”, does this makes sense to you" under the current lore? Cause is pure nonsense as far as I´m concerned, redemption about what and towards who?-
Just because they can doesn’t mean they always do. I mean, they are able to provide a valuable and necessary service. The legitimacy and use of skills is dictated by the user of said skills
She’s an Alliance Elven Ranger who went through a dark portal to fight off demons and knew it was a one way trip. (Edit: Well, Orcs at the time. Warcraft 2 and all.)
She comes back and Silvermoon is being held by Elves who are fighting alongside the orcs she was fighting in the second war and the trolls she’s been fighting for hundreds of years. (Sort of. Darkspear aren’t forest trolls.)
From her perspective Blood Elves are the baddies…
and from Vereesa’s perspective Blood Elves are the baddies because they’re hanging out with the guys who blew her husband up.
What is wrong with draining fel when you need to do it to survive?
Also, is draining arcane magic okay? Is the fel the problem? Because the big difference between Sin’dorei and remaining Quel’dorei was that they weren’t gonna do the mana draining thing.
I mean, if fel were evil and automatically made you a villain, warlocks and demon hunters should not be playable
Unless BE are intended to be utterly oblivious, I don’t think they didn’t know that fel was being used as a power source, but there was no point in bringing it up. Like “yea we are using fel, what about it? We make do.” And it honestly it worked for BE’s at the end.
To me it really read as if it wasn’t (is) a big deal, it’s just that there’s no need to rely on fel anymore.
Nah, we were having a lore discussion and then you started spewing your whole baggage about being treated like “filthy stupid fel suckers”. That’s what I’m not here for. Sort your stuff then you will be able to hold a conversation.
It’s ethics. It’s not about things making you intrinsically evil.
The Quel’lithien exiles drew the line on mana draining, the whole draining mana from living things. Is it a “bad” thing? Not innately, it’s really just about a set of values and ethics.
That question if its okay is only answered through cultural relativism.
Is it okay to eat animals? Is it better if the animals are free range? Ethics.
I think they had to get over the Blood Elf lore from Warcraft 3…
“Many of the stoic high elves, reeling from the loss of their ancient homeland, Quel’Thalas, have given in to their hatred and despair and embraced the dark side of their magical natures. Calling themselves ‘Blood Elves’ - these cold hearted refugees seek to expand their remaining magical powers at any cost - even if it means courting the infernal powers of the Burning Legion! Though still loyal to the Alliance, the Blood Elves’ passions will lead them not only to the highest pinnacles of power, but to the darkest depths of madness.”
So Chris Metzen talked a lot about redemption and about how they’d eventually be redeemed by the light.
We basically never heard from Blood Mages again though. So most of it came down to their, “Stealing the Light” thing.
The behind the scene stuff is all about them, “Losing their souls.” and being morally ambiguous as well. But we know how burning crusade ends.
Yes I know, you´re repeating what I told in the very first post I mentioned it.
Rogues are “valuable” members of their society thanks to the EVIL deeds they commit. Butthat speaks more about how useful they are as TOOLS than how useful they are CULTURALLY as individuals.
You mistaking Veeresa with Alleria, lul.
Veeresa pretty much stayed to chill in Azeroth (which is the funny thing, she judged them HARSHER than Alleria who did travel throught the Dark Portal and had to deal with the worst of the Old Horde). And mind you, they were the bad guys waaay earlier than Rhonin getting himself killed, since “Night of the Dragon” times she decided Belves were to be blamed for his cousing degenerating into a psycho (hilarious when we consider his behaviour would had gotten him killed by Rommath himself; how do I know this? easy: Galell). Why do you think I call her “prejudiced”? That´s because she IS prejudiced. Her prejudice was that made her create the SC with the espress purpose of opposing Belf presence in Dalaran in WotLK times.
Funny how literally looking at the undead remanents STILL destructing her former home and her UNDEAD sister that only became like that thanks to the actions of her Hubby´s prince was NO shock. Like,omg… she cares about Belves being allied to Orcs and doesn´t even try to investigate WHY and HOW this happened?
Let me tell you, the Windrunners aren´t the brightest of the bunch. ALL the three sisters are morons in their own ways.
If you ask my personal opinion? Nothing. However, this is NOT the PoV of the character in-universe.
For them Fel = Evil yes or yes, no questions asked. And some players, who don´t research the lore nor much less go a step further into analysing it, the words ofthe NPCs are the law and they believe that if they say so, then it´s real and no more discussion is needed.
Welcome to lore discussion in WoW.
I repeat: my personal PoV is that no, is the same thing for practical reasons and that the distinction is but a technnicality… hheck, Fel is associated to Light. Imagine a MHP poster of old, one of those that make the Pally = Lawful good equivalence (regardless of Scarlets existing since Vanilla) having to deal with this tiny little fact. That their “lawful good” cosmical Râison d´etre gave birth to the cosmical entity managed by a genocidal maniac.
Quel´dorei and Sin´dorei difference is more about ALL their choices, not only Mana Tap. the Quel´dorei that considered themselves as such because they gave the middle finger to Anasterian when he called back his troops at the end of the Second War and his secession to the Alliance compose ONE kind of Quel´dorei.
Is not as easy as mana veganism, the issue is more complex. shame some fans insist in linking these two races instead of developing the “we stayed with the Alliance cause we REALLY love humans and their culture” angle.
Clue: NONE of the cosmical entities are “evil”, not even death even while we are currently in a war against it. Evil are individuals, NOT races, NOT groups… at least not thanks to their magical income but only in regards to their actions and goals. THOSE are what makes evil those racesand groups nowadays.
Take in mind this concept is NEW. The old lore was closeminded, and it DID tend to classify the magical sources as “good/evil” thanks to their nature (ergo Fel, Death and Void were evil yes or yes, and Light, Life and Arcane were good yes or yes. No explanation whatsoever, they just were because the devs said so!!).
The Warcraft encyclopedia literally says that’s why they’re there though and there hasn’t been anything coming out after that to contradict it.
Then it comes up again in Lor’themar’s short story where he’s having to exile people from Silvermoon because of the draining mana thing.
" A few high elves here and there have realized the cause of their distress; others have not. A crucial difference between high elves and blood elves is that no high elves have decided to feed their hunger for arcane magic by draining that magic from alternative sources (now that the Sunwell is useless). Even today, though, a high elf might still succumb to that addiction and become one of the blood elves."
Yeah, but that same source also says:
In consequence, there are so few high elves left on Azeroth today that they cannot be considered a race in anything other than the biological sense. High elves do not gather in any significant numbers, nor do they act as a coordinated whole. They are a very small group of individuals scattered all over the world. As such, they do not have common opinions or goals. Indeed, modern high elves cannot even truly be said to have a culture–only a past filled with glory and regret.
Yeah, but then they added Allied Races that are, “A crack squad.”
Though that’s largely moot because we saw them gather in force in both Wrath and Legion.
Seems the rumors of their demise have been exaggerated.
Where as the not draining mana bit has not only not been contradicted, but it was reinforced in Lor’themar’s short story “In the Shadow of the Sun.”
Mainly saying that the encyclopedia doesn’t seem to be canon on its own anymore.
And the whole turning into a blood elf for doing it is just weird.
And what I mention doesn´t contradict the Warcraft Encyclopedia either? and it´s part of canon lore material, this is said in Vol. 2 of Chronicle. Some Helves literally decided they didn´t want to return to Quel´thalas, period. And some got kicked out thanks to extreme mana veganism, period.
From: WC3 - Reign of Chaos Manual:
“It should be noted that although the high elves retreated from the Alliance, a number of them remained in [Dalaran] and were loyal to the Alliance through the [Kirin Tor], as most contemporary [human] and high elven mages bowed to the sovereignty of Dalaran and the Kirin Tor at this time.”
" The altruistic priests of [Quel’Thalas] refused to abandon their roles as healers and agreed to remain in [Lordaeron] despite the edicts from their reclusive masters in [Silvermoon City]. The high elven priests use their [Light]-given powers to heal the wounded and bolster the spirits of Lordaeron’s fighting elite."
So yup!! the Helves can either be Human fanboys OR too commited to their Holy Light BS OR come from Quel´lithien (the ONLY canonical source of exiled Helves. Veeresa was NOT there BUT she got called “exilee” in Cata after her stint in WotLK so I speculate she got exiled for acting like a jerk against the Belves. Which is hilarious, she basically kicked herself out thannks to her “mature” attitude.
Btw, your source? does NOT mention ANYWHERE any “en masse” kicking out of Helves, ergo that´s just you reaching. It only says Helves decided to NOT drain alternative sources to get mana BUT that sometimes, they endedup doing exactly this (and guess what happened to those Quel´lithien “brilliant” Rangers?!?)
So before I get to this citation;
Vanilla WoW added a few High Elf lodges, which adds more High Elves to the Alliance. Also, Theramore and the Mage district have always had High Elves.
Anyways, “In the Shadow of the Sun.”
“Five years we rot here, thrown out of our homes at your behest because we refuse to suck magic from living things like vampires.” - Renthar talking to Lor’themar.