The toxicity is centered around the fact that visions are time gated with the possibility of failure. Things like lockouts, reps, and other daily systems are non-toxic because within a certain window you can retry and work as much as you want to get them done. With visions, this is not the case, and it leads to several toxic scenarios:
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People wasting other people’s vessels. Whether it’s miscommunication, getting a bad player, or just bad luck - the social aspect of visions is just ripe for toxic behavior. While m+ may seem similar, the fact that you can at least chest or go again with a different group just makes it no where near as bad - and m+ is at least semi-avoidable. Visions are essentially required content with the corruption system. There is also a strong incentive to not kick people in m+, wheras in visions the group leader can easily waste your vessel for any reason.
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Wasting vessels due to events out of the players control. There are bugs in the game, issue with internet, etc. that just make this type of content not great for an mmorpg. Getting DCed or stuck in combat only to waste a vessel you spent an hour grinding out is not fun gameplay.
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Forcing people into solo content. Because of #1, a lot of people feel compelled to try to solo visions. The thing is, even with the healer/tank nerfs, visions are still both boring and frustrating to do as either spec. There is also just the balancing issue of some classes (DH) being able to faceroll while other classes get destroyed.
Really, all of this toxicity would be fine if visions hadn’t been made into a critical piece of progression for gearing. I argue that visions are just the worst kind of gambling system and all around bad - making players do chores every day just so they can roll the dice on a vision is pretty much setting people up to feel frustrated and angry. But if this something you want to try as a system, at least give people the opportunity to avoid them and still be able to acquire and use the good gear they get from the content they do enjoy.
25 Likes
I just solo mine - no toxicity involved (except for maybe those blob guys).
70 Likes
I solo with my alts and otherwise run with a friend. Visions have been loads of fun.
I would recommend making friends and running with them. Otherwise, they’re perfectly soloable.
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Soloable for you. I have four offensive abilities, 2 of which are constantly on CD.
4 Likes
Then do them solo?
So include this in #1 and not a separate point.
So go do Mythic+, Raids, etc…
Visions really only impact your cloak, and you really only need to do the 2 easy areas until Rank 12+. Visions can drop good gear, but Raid gear and Mythic+ can be even better.
6 Likes
No incentive to group up since someone sitting on a bunch of vessels can waste yours just because. I’ve focused my research on soloing now and I don’t do this in a group anymore. Too many people who stand in bad, etc. When I was forming groups I would chat while we were waiting for others and ask a few key questions. If the person could not respond, I quietly removed them. Communication is key.
Frankly, I don’t understand why it was even made into group content when it’s so patently easy to ruin a vision for other people. Think about it. A troll can just trash their efforts in terms of assaults and dailies they’ve done to get vessels.
4 Likes
Yeah, yeah, they’re “optional”. Give me a break. I’m already at the last debuff while equipped. They are not optional. The cloak is literally the primary feature of 8.3.
8 Likes
Blaming visions for being toxic… awesome, guess it’s Sunday officially … 
16 Likes
Gotta say, I think this may be the first time ever that I’ve seen someone complain because we have the option of doing something solo.
17 Likes
Shouldn’t more aspects of the game center around the possibility of failures? Otherwise you’re just guaranteed all the benefits and rewards merely by participating in content rather than beating a particular challenge.
The rewards arbitrarily locked behind rep requirements (Pathfinder and Essences) are among the most heavily critiqued part of the game
3 Likes
Highly enjoying them!
Switching specs between some pulls has actually felt advantageous.
I don’t have any corruptions that are super advantageous but our Twilight Devastation Guild Bear is absolutely demolishing it.
Given the items are a ‘on use’ item I’d hesitate to invite total randoms. I’d check if they’re any good first.
I am finding myself going Vengeance for mobbing the first area on my DH. AoE silence is just too strong here.
As for throwaway vessels I kinda agree but so think that’s why they’re making them even easier to get, so that it’s no longer an issue (I started late and already r11, with more than enough for the week coming.)
3 Likes
Pretty sure you have another spec on that character as well, so if you really wanted to.
3 Likes
i just dont do them
the orb of sanity thingy hasent been popping up in the middle of my screen
brokencrap i guess, or do you need to buy it each week?
idk, oh well
Didn’t a couple guilds clear Nyal’otha by the second week with like rank 7 cloaks? Not sure how essential visions are for progression… seems like you’re just mentally inflating their worth to justify being mad.
8 Likes
It does. You can fail a m+ run. You can fail to kill a rare. You can fail at pvp. You can wipe on a boss. The difference is that you aren’t forced to go grind more of X currency that you can only get so much of a day before you’re allowed to retry. Which is why it’s toxic.
Which is exactly how you should know it’s a toxic feature. The fact that you option is to deal with toxicity or play a certain way is not great game design in my mind.
Getting debuffed can easily cause a wipe - especially for healer and tanks who are the people who have the worst time in visions. But there’s also the fact that there’s still much more gear progression that just being able to clear h ny. And if you don’t upgrade the cloak you get into the pure healing/dmg debuff which is supposed to be a hard stop.
2 Likes
Definitely. Recruit some “friends” to use for this.
World first guilds are highly atypical. The fact that you think anyone should be able to do what they do is…scary.
1 Like
I’d say it is not meant for uncoordinated i.e. not pre-made groups.
You should probably rather run them solo, than rely on random pugs.
Like you said yourself communication can be crucial in this type of content.
People tend to try reading others (random pugs) minds, same happens in m+, and set themelves up for disappointment.
1 Like
If you did the first one, turned it in to Mother after to active that console thing, tick off the first talent to give said orb of sanity. I’d open up a ticket since it’s obviously a bug. You don’t have to buy anything every week. It’s a talent in the tree for the visions.
But you wrote you don’t touch 8.3 content anyways so I guess it doesn’t matter.
Mythic… not heroic. They cleared Mythic with 2nd week cloaks.
They still did it, demonstrating that it is not vital to have a high level cloak to complete the highest objective in the game.
1 Like
They’re also the 1%, your point? We should all be balanced around what method can do?
It’s an mmo - if grouping is supposed to be doable and yet it’s the worst way to do something because the cost/benefit is so off base then that should be a giant red THIS IS BROKEN flag.
1 Like