Edit: Original title was "Video proof of broken PVE scaling". Apparently Watcher is so defensive about his terrible design that he actually edited the title.
Edit 2: It let me change it back. Let's see what happens.
Edit 3: Doing the same thing at 111 with crafted gear. Everyone screeching "But raid gear" is provably wrong. https://youtu.be/0OH-ch4RuF0
A 110 with mediocre gear from last expansion is stronger in PVE than a Mythic geared 120. Under no circumstances should a 110 be stronger than a 120.
110 w/219 iLevel vs Normal Waycrest Manor - https://youtu.be/fAdcJ0tT-zc
120 w/340 iLevel vs Normal Waycrest Manor - https://youtu.be/EuOdz8JoupQ
Same race. Same class. Same spec.
I'm aware that I didn't play either run optimally, but the difference is clear.
The 110 was able to pull all enemies up to and including the first boss, let the boss stack 100% extra damage, and stand in his poison puddles without issue.
I wound up with a different path when I went in with the 120, but it went so badly so quickly that resetting to get the same path was a waste of time. Fewer mobs were chasing me but it was far too much.
The current scaling makes no sense and really makes me wonder why I bothered to level since all it did was make me significantly weaker.
When Uldir releases, I am going to invite nothing but 110s to carry me through it.
22 Likes
I was at level 118 when people told me "level you noob it gets a lot better once you level up to cap"
I was a fresh level 120 when people told me "get at least 300 ilvl you noob it gets a lot better mobs melt"
I'm at 318 ilvl now and IT'S HARDER TO KILL ANYTHING THAN IT EVER WAS.
Absolutely stupid. After Blizzard not even understand how much of a problem this is based on the Q&A, I'm about to walk.
No joke, I'm already looking at what else I can replace this with. I completely hate this.
I was a fresh level 120 when people told me "get at least 300 ilvl you noob it gets a lot better mobs melt"
I'm at 318 ilvl now and IT'S HARDER TO KILL ANYTHING THAN IT EVER WAS.
Absolutely stupid. After Blizzard not even understand how much of a problem this is based on the Q&A, I'm about to walk.
No joke, I'm already looking at what else I can replace this with. I completely hate this.
7 Likes
Blizzard stated in their Q&A that they were looking into this.
I think they even said that a patch was put into the game yesterday to try and fix the pvp scaling issue.
I think they even said that a patch was put into the game yesterday to try and fix the pvp scaling issue.
08/24/2018 01:38 AMPosted by ZincuidBlizzard stated in their Q&A that they were looking into this.
I think they even said that a patch was put into the game yesterday to try and fix the pvp scaling issue.
mmmmmm "PVE"
08/24/2018 01:38 AMPosted by ZincuidBlizzard stated in their Q&A that they were looking into this.
No they didn't. Response here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/300939546?t=24m
Their response was verbatim "we found that it's all working as intended" and mostly addressed world PVE. Instance PVE was not mentioned. They claimed that any problems are outliers with specific mobs. This is an entire instance.
They also claimed that getting geared to the level I am would make you at least 60-70% stronger than being max level. That may be true, but my video clearly proves that despite any gains I made after hitting max level, I'm still significantly weaker than I would have been at 110.
If this is intended, then what they intended is stupid and needs to be changed.
Even if this was not intended, that would be a decent excuse if 3.5 million people weren't going through the hardship caused by a complete failure to properly do math or test content.
2 Likes
The current devs' egos are far too great for them to ever admit they made a mistake. They will take that mistake and grind it into the ground rather than admit that they did something wrong.
5 Likes
That is seriously pathetic, and 219 ilvl on a 110 is nothing.
Blizz have seriously messed up on what it means to progress in a RPG.
Lets face it, this is the nerf expansion. This was the first expansion we had things taken from us before it even started (namely our artifact weapons and the actives/passives) and now with the way PvP and PvP scales, you only get weaker as you put in effort and level.
Mythic dungeon gear is useless. Why bother.
Blizz have seriously messed up on what it means to progress in a RPG.
Lets face it, this is the nerf expansion. This was the first expansion we had things taken from us before it even started (namely our artifact weapons and the actives/passives) and now with the way PvP and PvP scales, you only get weaker as you put in effort and level.
Mythic dungeon gear is useless. Why bother.
08/24/2018 01:23 AMPosted by Darien
When Uldir releases, I am going to invite nothing but 110s to carry me through it.
That would be hilarious.
1 Like
08/24/2018 01:51 AMPosted by NytefuryThat is seriously pathetic, and 219 ilvl on a 110 is nothing
If I remember correctly, Darienthree (the 110) was around 915 iLevel before the stat squish. His raid pieces came from weekly boxes and he only ever set foot in LFR once.
Also keep in mind that the helmet and neck are 280 from the starter quest. He was 210 iLevel before that.
1 Like
A 110 in a normal 110 dungeon is probably going to have no problem soloing it. A fresh 120 running a normal is not supposed to be able to solo a normal 120 dungeon. Nothing to see here. If 110s where garbage in a normal it would suck for all the 120s in the same group.
ooops... total misread... nonetheless, they also said they were studying the data regarding PVE scaling and making sure that it was working as intended.
Also...is itl really a matter of the 120 being weaker?
Put the 110 against the 120 level mobs would he have died just as quick as the 120 did (if not faster)?
wouldnt it be that the 120's content was harder? (hard to tell if the player was weaker due to the dps meter not working properly in the 120's video).
Also...is itl really a matter of the 120 being weaker?
Put the 110 against the 120 level mobs would he have died just as quick as the 120 did (if not faster)?
wouldnt it be that the 120's content was harder? (hard to tell if the player was weaker due to the dps meter not working properly in the 120's video).
08/24/2018 02:01 AMPosted by HòóliganA 110 in a normal 110 dungeon is probably going to have no problem soloing it. A fresh 120 running a normal is not supposed to be able to solo a normal 120 dungeon. Nothing to see here. If 110s where garbage in a normal it would suck for all the 120s in the same group.
I'm not a fresh 120. I got to 120 on the first day and I have 340 iLevel. Every piece of gear I'm wearing is epic except for one 330 trinket. I show my gear score at the beginning of both videos and show every piece of gear at the end.
Don't bother to comment if you aren't going to bother to know what you're talking about. You clearly didn't read anything I typed or watch either of the videos.
1 Like
ion said it's fine :)
08/24/2018 01:23 AMPosted by DarienI'm aware that I didn't play either run optimally
Opinion negated/invalidated/irrelevant/whatever
A 110 with raid gear is better then a 120 with dungeon gear? That makes sense but its a normal dungeon. That 110 cant do raids. That 110 ia doing a different version of the instance and is getting different loot. The 120 is illegible for better rewards and raid gear loot in September.
I feel bad for the guys who worked their butts off to hit max lvl and get their gear ilvls on the rise, only to find out they've entered Blizz's new Twilight Zone limbo void where the way things work is... a little unexpected.
08/24/2018 02:03 AMPosted by Zincuid
wouldnt it be that the 120's content was harder?
It's the same content—Normal Waycrest Manor—though it scales to 120 for the 120.
The 120 enemies will have objectively more health, damage etc. But the 120 has objectively more health, damage, etc than the 110.
Ideally, the level of difficulty would be similar, because the content is supposed to scale to meet you. You should be doing the same relative damage. If Judgment hits for 1,000 at 110 and 20,000 at 120, that is fine as long as it takes the same percentage of the enemy's hp away.
The problem is that the 110 has absolute garbage gear for the content because he's fresh off the boat. The 120 has ridiculously better gear because he's got almost all Mythic dungeon loot. Barring the fact that my main has 340 iLevel, they should perform similarly. When considering the iLevel, my main should outperform the 110.
To be clear, I'm not arguing that a 120 should necessarily be able to solo a normal dungeon even with Mythic dungeon loot. But if a 110 can do it, a 120 should be able to do it better. There is no justification for a 110 ever being stronger than a 120.
1 Like
Consider 219 is appx. halfway between normal and heroic throne gear. The 4th raid tier in the expansion. You're comparing that to someone multiple tiers lower.
You're not comparing equally equipped characters. And that's before we touch on legendaries and how they can skew power.
Mythic gear, at least currently post-squash, would be around 182 ilvl. Which seems to be highly weird post-squash and makes me question if they plan to squash ilvls every expac. Given we're back to +15 ilvl jumps for tiers in BfA apparently again.
You're not comparing equally equipped characters. And that's before we touch on legendaries and how they can skew power.
Mythic gear, at least currently post-squash, would be around 182 ilvl. Which seems to be highly weird post-squash and makes me question if they plan to squash ilvls every expac. Given we're back to +15 ilvl jumps for tiers in BfA apparently again.
Normal dungeons have to be scaled for fresh 110's, not raid geared characters.
ilvl 210 at level 110 is the final raid tier of Legion, yes they will be comparatively stronger in a scaled dungeon than a mythic dungeon geared 120.
A better comparison would be a 110 with Legion mythic dungeon gear vs a 120 with BFA mythic dungeon gear, although that's complicated by the squish and the fact that dungeon gear ilvl was buffed during Legion.
ilvl 210 at level 110 is the final raid tier of Legion, yes they will be comparatively stronger in a scaled dungeon than a mythic dungeon geared 120.
A better comparison would be a 110 with Legion mythic dungeon gear vs a 120 with BFA mythic dungeon gear, although that's complicated by the squish and the fact that dungeon gear ilvl was buffed during Legion.
08/24/2018 02:16 AMPosted by TrilanniConsider 219 is appx. halfway between normal and heroic throne gear. The 4th raid tier in the expansion. You're comparing that to someone multiple tiers lower.
You're not comparing equally equipped characters. And that's before we touch on legendaries and how they can skew power.
No 110 is equally equipped to a 120. It doesn't matter if the 110 had Mythic Antorus gear.
That's the problem.
A 110 should never be stronger than a 120. The scaling makes no sense.
1 Like