Versatility vs crit. The showdown of bdks

Classes Death Knight
21

Yeah… not for the sake of survivability.

Means dps is the entire point of the game. Because no matter which way you go, you’re going to have problems. Too much survivability anf you drop aggro constantly.

Which if you go dps route, you won’t experience aggro drop like when you focus on survivability.3/4 the time when i was stacking versatility id lose aggro and my girls mage get targeted and then we both die because she gotta run back to her body and the survivability keeps you going till you have hope you’ll be able to finish it and then you die and have to redo the entire event anyways.

But dont take my word for it. Try it. Not sim or raidbots. Try it.

No. It is exactly what i said. It actually is over 72% when i trinket and use drw.

Every single point of crit is applied to parry. That’s a factual game mechanic.parry is higher than crit because it takes less points to hit next %point of parry than crit.

And crit takes almost 13% less points per % point to raise compared to versatility. It is the highest of the 4 to build up % wise.

You dont read really well do you? I asked to not quote sims or raidbots because they don’t use complete information or ranges.

Reread my original statement above, then get all high and mighty as to why I’d ignore an idiot quoting either simulations against my point.

That was the entire point i was trying to make.

Says a bunch of simulation runners? Dude i know for a fact that neither SimC or raidbots uses complete ranges or information when making their determinations. They use what has already simmd well, and seen what went best with that.

This is all in my original statement above.

22

Except versatility enhances damage as well. Gear alone will provide you with the damage you require to maintain agro, so sacrificing versatility is never an option.

23

This is just dumb!

If you are in farm content and have a crit haste set and take little to no damage I suppose you could get away with stacking crit per parry.

Otherwise vers over crit and crit remains on the bottom for stats side by side of mastery.

Vers double dips, more damage and healing you do per death strike also more healing received by the healers who are healing you.

You cannot parry magic spells or parry from behind making it useless in some situations. I got 26 haste, 13 vers as base and 11% crit and about 30 mastery.

There is a couple random pieces I still need to farm from m+ for haste vers combo. Trying to maintain roughly 15-16% vers. I already got all the haste vers 430 pieces I could get from raid. Rest of it comes from Atal and Freehold runs.

24

Hmm lets see. Vers:

*damage increase
*healing increase
*permanent magical/physical damage reduction (only stat in game that provides magical damage reduction, which ALL tanks are vulnerable to in BFA as per design)

Crit:

*parry, unreliable physical damage mitigation, rating DR’s very harshly
*damage increase

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

OP:

*no enchants
*no content-appropriate gems
*awful talent choices (consumption??? Lmfao)
*no raid/m+ experience to speak of as a blood dk

Hmmmmmmm :thinking:

3 Likes
25

Please just go ask the acherus discord. People in there will give you a much better answer as they combine theory with practice. The high high end DKs run with certain stats for a reason and it’s not just because of simulations.

2 Likes
26

If only you could look at the tooltips in game and see that that’s not the case.
If only you could take off a piece of strength gear without crit and realize your parry goes down.

But I guess you’re too good for that.

27

It Barely increases damage compared to crit.

Not that I’ve experienced. Unless you mean all the damage i have from criting all the time keeps any mob focused on me.

Which was not a thing to me before switching to crit.

No that is literally and actually crit. Versatility gives % equal to it’s. Crit doubles damage.

Literally i am aiming at 5% less versatility than you.

That’s 5% less damage and healing from versatility. And 2.5% defense.

If that is enough to “break” anything, its yalls minds.

Unreliable because yours is so low?

A crap tonne.

Not like the gimp damage increase from versatility.

Which, as i pointed out above this quote, is only 5-6% less than what one of yall is aiming for .

Meanwhile, my crit is astronomical comparatively.

And yes, consumption because i like timers. That one i use for my smoke break. Also im lazy as I’ve stated 40 + times since posting on the forums originally.

And as yall pointed out, it has squat to do with skills. Its crit vs versatility.

My skills still keeping me alive. No idea why the beef.

Oh ok. Well since you’re thinking, you do know that’s a symbol for lesbians, right?

No they use sims and raidbots.

Ill pass and just keep trial and erroring

Working better for me than listening to a bunch bots and programs that, as i said above, aren’t shuffling a full deck.

You right. Its because somebody rolled up leaderboard with that build anf they all cookie cutting.

No. It does go down but because main stats modify it. But the numerical value , ie 1700 crit it will say 1700 parry. All main stat do is effect the %.

But, Im the one that needs to read?

28

Crit will generally raise your damage by about half its value IIRC. My math is not so good.
Versatility scales linearly, so while it will not be multiplicative as Crit would be, it is more consistent and triple dips across three different parts of BDK tanking.

You may need to re-evaluate your rotation and figure out what may be different. Mind you, after the introduction of essences, Anima of life and death has become a very powerful ability for Mythic + for establishing snap agro. BDK has the second highest raw Hp in the game if I remember correctly, making it particularly powerful.

If you are in a raid, generally you’ll be focusing on the boss, where taunts will be enough.

You seem to misunderstand.
Versatility gives damage increase, damage reduction, and a healing increase.
The damage reduction applies to ALL damage including bleeds which Parry will not affect. It will also reduce magical damage, which every tank outside of Paladin is affected.

Crit parry does not provide any such benefit, relies on you facing the target, and does not work on any tank killing mechanics.

unreliable because it is unreliable outside of DRW, and DRW will not defend you from the likes of Rezan’s bleed mechanic, or any magical mechanic from any boss.

This is anecdotal and flawed.
Sims are mathematical and much more accurate.
Vers> crit in every situation.

1 Like
29

Crit scales in a similar way that versatility does. Both scale linearly when you hold your other stats constant, and multiplicatively with every other stat. Versatility is a small constant damage increase, while crit is a small chance at RNG-ing your way to a big damage increase.

When you do 200% crit damage (as is usual), going from 0% -> X% crit gives you X% extra damage. Versatility is obviously very similar: getting X% versatility gives you X% extra damage. The only differences are in the supplemental effects of the stats and the mathematical conversion between rating and %.

30

lol I have more of every stat than you, including more Parry. Parry is not a reliable stat, that’s not up for debate. You don’t seem to be taking the spec very seriously, you make garbage talent choices, you don’t enchant your gear, and you haven’t done anything worthwhile in terms of content. Why should anyone take you seriously?

31

Hows this?

I haven’t changed rotation since legion.

Hence why i still have consumption.

I haven’t changed my rotation since legion because i started wow in legion. Im a tee totaling wow noob. Never been a secret.

I started playing wow because i was tired of losing all my gaming buddies to wow. So while im a wow noob, i am not a blizz noob. Diablo 1, its expansion not by blizz all the way through pretty much every one of their games. And im definitely not a d3 team noob.

Anyway, what is snap aggro? Lol

Im not sure what hp exactly has to do with aggro in general. What i do know is that iv says if your aggro sucks, raise dps. When i was running around with my dk in legion, i always was losing targeted and the monsters never came back without taunting.

When i switched to crit, i don’t even have to taunt unless i just wanna be lazy af or use it as opener.

Like. …i don’t even want to think how agonizingly slow bfa wqs would be had i not switched. They took forever, the way i play- in 2 person party. While my server is a full server, i assume sharding limits the amount of other players, with the fact that im such a filthy casual that i stay way behind content wise so we pretty much never see many other people in a lot of areas.usually there’ll be maybe 3 other people involved. Rarely are they healers and half the time its hordees.

Which is why i wasn’t able to loot that xt/kt elite in mecha. Can’t remember which it was. I pop everything with exploder. The greatest majority of its life span i didn’t even look at it’s name just tab after i watched the hordee not be prepared to fight it solo.

The suckiest part about losing target is its an unplanned movement point and that can really mess withthe attack from behind bonus some, if not all dpss, have

Anyway, he stopped dying when i jacked aggro and the elite didn’t even live long enough to rekt my absorbs, let alone damage me. Also he never even started to lose threat on me.

As i just said above, i don’t need to taunt i walk over everything. If anything, i have opposite issue. Like why tf can i not stand anywhere “safe” and chill for 5 minutes. Oh, yeah, cause something is always attacking me.

Im going to go opposite direction on my maelstrom server dk. JUST haste and versatility.

And since i just got suspended from work for “5” days that turns into 8 because works “work week” starts on Saturday and today Friday so I’ve got nothing else to do but try for the 5 or w/e max level characters achiev.

Yea, and at 15% versatility, thats 15% damage & healing and 7.5% dr.

I completely understand versatility.

Crit gives extra over all chance of inflicting 100% extra damage when critical hit is rolled.

So while your crit is lower, it doesn’t matter.

That’s why on d3, I use ruby till max level [it gives straight up damage to weapon] which is exceptionally powerful while leveling because until max level, it is very hard to raise critical hit chance. At max level, almost everything but boots has crit chance possible to roll on the items themselves. Whats even better is there many ways on d3 to increase the bonus damage from the crits and we were seeing some epic af crits till the squish over there.

What crit does on wow is increase your chance of inflicting a critical hit, which is done in every single attack against the target, as the crit tooltips shows.

By that, i mean the chance to strike a critical hit.

So when i trinket out, almost every other hit is crit. Of every skill. Walking around, every like 5 hits.

And it can happen on any attack.

What it cannot do is increase actual bonus damage. Which is whatever. I’m not even mad. If there was a way to increase the bonus damage…wait. there is a way. increase the amount of times crit can proc. The more it has a chance to roll to happen, the more damage you output. The more of that we have, the more threat we constantly generate.

Also tho, i can only assume that hordee never tried to actively steal the dudes targeting back. I wouldn’t, if i was him. What i saw was : The guy tried to land before he hit 10 stacks but just missed it.

Hordee Was getting destroyed tho.like no bs, 15%hp left. Tiny bar of green left.

Was kinda fun to superman a doer of evil. Like maybe he switch over to alliance cause that was pretty fly.

Like fortnite vd fly

Everything but that last line was truth. I cannot freaking stand fortnite tho, lol

Edit:

Bro

SimC is not perfect.

4. Can I Sim Myself? Should I?

The Blood Death Knight module for SimulationCraft is well-maintained and can generally be relied upon to help understand the effect to damage output your gear, talent, and Azerite trait choices can have.

That having been said, SimulationCraft cannot be used to evaluate defensive choices.

From iv.

Yet yall all doing it. Its not even funny to me anymore. Its kinda unsettling how bad yall being about a simulator.

So no.

You see it up in the title? I don’t. Its a tertiary stat. I’ve stated that like 7 times.

No. To yall they are. But as im not doing you, and have no desire to get into a dungeon or raid i can’t do with as little to no help at all. Not my kink.

No my kink.

Stop bringing it up like it matters that im not doing what you are doing.

What matters here is yall blindly following some skynet stuff and really, i honestly bet that you’re not even doing that. You look at leaderboard and follow the highest.

That’s also not new to me. I’ve seen that for a long time on many games. Most recently before playing wow was on d3. Same junk. Cookie cutters everywhere.

Why should i listen to lemming jabber bro? You going to hop off your high horse and discuss, or keep being a chocotaco?

Seriously.

32

Ah, thank you for the information

1 Like
33

Because I actually go out there and do content, unlike you who just talks crap on the forums. Cookie cutter has nothing to do about it, Consumption is a piece of flaming garbage compared to any talent on that row. You’re not special lol, you just gimp yourself for no reason. Do I also enchant and socket my gear because I’m “cookie cutter”? Lmao.

34

Your aren’t supposed to be able to solo a dungeon… A dungeon is a group effort. Once you do some real content where you are actually in danger of dying and need a healer, then you may understand why haste/vers is better. For your level of content, stacking crit is fine. I will 100% listen to the DK’s who are running harder content.

You are correct that you cannot sim for defensive purposes, so thats where experience comes into play. You DO NOT have the same experience of all the people on the Archerus and I repeat, go ask the people on their discord. I think you won’t because you don’t want to be shot down there by people who actually know what they are talking about.

35

The actual text on hover over for crit says “provides extra effectiveness on damage and heals” it does not indicate at any point a limitation on what damage or heals it makes more effective.

Which when i was on my rp bdk, meant his little level 71 dnd would crit to like 44 damage tick. Up from 22 per tick. I didn’t go up through his entire combat log, because all the actions from monsters in the area he’s in in northrend. And his dnd killed the guy he was attacking when i was checking his crit hits and heals. Couldnt get anywhere on that front because didnt need any heals. Which is kind of funny because with what yall are saying, i should need more heals, all the time. I said guy, but it was a need to kill named valkyr elite that was one of the monsters from the elite hunting achiev in northrend.

I also noticed he ain’t even got mastery yet and only 2% versatility. Since hes so low in level it makes sense about no mastery but versatility should of been a thing, but he only has versatility because he’s using touch of the void trinket for the tendrils.

The only time my rp bdk has partied is to do bgs and 2v2. No pve party ever. Solo everything pve.

I mean is this game not intended to have us need a party all the way through it in some capacity?

I mean i expect being able to solo Diablo series because max players in 1 is 4 people and they don’t even really have a party system. D2 has 8 player party games, and d3 has 4 person games. Since pvp is meaningless on d3, everyone in your game is in your party.

Anyway, wow supposed to be harder enough baseline, that you need a party. Diablo series, the game gets harder the more people in your game. Every time a person gets into your game, it tells you “a player has joined your game, the minions of hell grow stronger”.

But that’s none of my business.

Anyway, thanks to those of you that aren’t trying to throw sims and raidbots at me.

The biggest beef with leaderboard is it takes you out of the picture because somebody did it that way. Except that is only one way. Like cats, theres always more than one way to skin it.

Edit :

With someone else’s build.

Actually, it does. Do you know what a cookie cutter is in gaming terms? You look like every other dk in your build.

No. You can afford to. I don’t need to, but you need all the extra help you can get.

Is not our self heals always helped with short changing healers? Tf planet you living on?

I’ve already listed the top 3 bdks responses to my line of inquiry.

They replied to the guy in the reddit posts in my original comment above.

Do yourself a favor and stop listening to the people telling you to be like everyone else.

Id also remind everyone that those bdks use sims and raidbots. Yall can’t even binge around that basis, i don’t know why i thought any of yall would, but I’ve already quit caring.

Obviously if you could even play without the sims or raidbots, you would have already done so.

Aside the English fail here, then why was it happening when i started playing this game? Guildie carried my girl and I through the first dungeon i ever did on my boosted spriest. I watched this dh solo this entire dungeon with which he had not played in long enough that he lost touch with rotation and died one time.

So not only did he solo the dungeon, he carried 2.

Besides all that if i can Google search dk solo guide at level, and it pops up anything, you’d be wrong.

Sidebar - full disclosure, I’ve already searched and there are MANY guides for solo at level dungeons for bdks. Because it used to be bdks could solo almost anything if properly geared, enchanted, and socketed.

So intended or not, it’s already been happening.

36

Correct, it is very vague, but Deathstrike does NOT benefit healing wise from crit.

37

I haven’t noticed either direction.i rarely actually look at my combat log, except on death. And that is rare as it is. Only reason i looked at all was to see how often my rp bdk utilities crit. I figured he was ideal because he barely has any versatility and has solo’d many northrend elites that 2 levels higher. He’s on very low population server so if i do see anyone around, we’re all kinda awestruck. I mean i literally leveled him to 73 now and hes only seen 7 people outside of stormwind. That’s in total.

But anyway, death strike is not our only source of healing. Im pretty sure it works with healing from foods, but that is not relevant. I don’t use potions so no idea if that is, although i can’t imagine it not being helped. Lol

38

If your “build” is so good, then why haven’t you done anything with it? Easy to talk crap how you’re amazing when you haven’t even done a mythic +2. I can probably be naked and do what you do. Lmao

1 Like
39

Well, as I’ve stated like 14 times, im not doing anything with it because im not interested in m+. It has nothing to do with the build.

But besides all that yall said death strike doesn’t benefit from crit on healing, which it might not, i don’t know, i do know i got a almost 15k ds yesterday that was from crit. I singularly mentioned it like that because it is really really hard to keep track of anything with built in combat log. It tracks things that dont affect my characters at all and so it floods full of useless info.

Anyway, if death strike damage can crit, why can’t the healing?

Edit:

Also tho, i never was talking trash. I did a bunch of item changes because stuff had gotten cheaper and then new areas opened and benethic happened. And then i noticed how every aspect of pretty much everything was faster and hit harder and then i noticed how little versatility i had left and how much crit and thought well that’s silly but no, it isn’t silly. When i use my trinket, it almost double crit points.

Anyway, yall think crit non reliable because it is unreliable when it is low. But when i trinket, its over my mastery % and every 3 hits has 2 crits. Regardless of what im doing. I thought you guys would appreciate a fresh take, obviously wrong since yall keep aggroing over it.

Meh.

40

Dunno why people put so much effort into replying someone that literally only has achievements for Heroic Tol Dagor and Heroic Waycrest.

He’s either giving deliberately misleading advice, or he’s talking about trivial content where itemization is irrelevant.