- The required animals to rescue for “Ember Court: Glimpse of the Wilds” has been lowered to 10 (was 15).
This is big!
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Wait… what!? lol
I wish they would nerf the bear quest for ember court. That quest is HORRIBLE.
Also, frost mage needs buff.
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It really doesn’t, its inline with all the other mage specs → check simcraft.
Its lowest on WCL because no one is playing it for one reason or another (fun factor/specific boss encounter timing).
Fire → 34,000 parses
Arcane → 2000 parses
Frost → 1000 parses
The reason no one is playing it is because it’s bad.
I don’t know what you’re trying to get at, but you might as well not even repost.
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Is it? How can you prove it?
Here’s how I can support that it’s not:
- Simcraft models the actual performance capability of each class.
- WCL only shows any given individual players ability to play the class, and doesn’t show ilvl banding unless you really look for it.
- Simcraft has all mages fully kitted out at 235 ilvl with 2 potency conduits within 100 dps of each other.
- On mythic there are literally 0 frost mage parses above the 220 ilvl
WCL has a compounding effect. People see something is below another, they draw early conclusions and assume its bad. People hear it’s bad avoid avoid it then cry on the forums without understanding the reasons why its low on WCL.
Shaman had the same issue in BFA.
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Are you trolling? Everything is showing as frost mage being undertuned.
- Go watch Preheat’s videos, one of the best mages in the world. He made an entire video of it (with math)
- Why do you think no one is playing it in mythic? Because it has low numbers.
- Warcraft logs shows very high frost parses being lower than very low parse numbers for other specs
- Heroic logs have 66k + parses. Frost is on bottom there as well. 140k parses in normal. Bottom there as well. Bottom doesn’t matter - the gap between bottom and top does.
- I don’t know, man. You seem to be the only one out of every mage in the world who is claiming frost is good. Maybe you know something that no one else in the world knows. Please share.
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People are playing it, they are just at the bottom of the meter.
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When i say “no one” i don’t mean literally 0 ffs.
In mythic, mages are switching to fire because frost doesn’t put up the numbers. The amount of parses are very low compared to other specs, and especially frost mages on other difficulties. So no one is playing frost in mythic, and if they are, they better be very high parsers otherwise they are a detriment to the raid.
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I’m not going to waste my time going through this. Last thing I’m going to say:
Preheat’s literal front page video is saying frost/arcane is viable
“There is more than 1 good spec for mage in shadowlands. Fire and frost are both so good I wouldn’t recommend going all in on 1 spec”
This sums it up. Frost excels at cleave, Nathria doesn’t have a lot of cleave, and where it does frost can keep up - See Stonelegion generals.
Yes please don’t waste your time reading evidence after you asked for it. Preheat’s comment were pre expansion drop. He has since explained how frost is undertuned, as have other mages who have claimed frost would be amazing; however the pre expansion nerf to frost was a killer.
“see Stone legion generals” - LOL did you even look at the numbers before you posted that. Yes! See them! See frost mage get wrecked on that encounter that they are designed to be on top for. Or just don’t look and keep spouting things to which you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Anyway, you go be your frost mage in the mythic raids, pal. Do it up, and show everyone what they are missing.
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I watched the Limit mythic Stone Generals stream. (iirc) they brought two Frost mages to that fight only and then benched them because the spec is so bad…lol.
But, you know, obviously they are a bunch of scrubs, so always go with the Sims over “anecdotal” evidence…amiright?
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The guy is saying Fire is 5-10% under tuned even though it is the 7th highest dps give or take a few depending on the fight. How am I suppose to him seriously when he says stuff like that?
I guess don’t. Go tell him what a newb he is.
Don’t follow the wowhead fire guide either cause he wrote it and can’t be trusted.
I did read it, and most of it didn’t really matter.
- No one plays frost because numbers are low. Numbers are low because no one plays frost. But no one plays frost because numbers are low. But numbers are low because no one plays frost…
- In no scenario is frosts median below other classes 1st quantile at the 75th percentile across mythic or heroic.
- A spec for every class has to be bottom of list, that changes competitiveness, not viability. If you buffed frost to be 5% ahead of fire you’d see fire fall, then people would cry about fire and being forced to frost. It’s not solvable, either your viable or you’re not - and frost is viable, its just not the meta.
Every DPS class has one that gets flocked to. Warlocks - Aff, Hunters - MM, Rogues - outlaw, DK - UH. These specs are considered for the WF raiders because they are min-maxing instead of looking for viability. They get geared first and hardest, they pad WCL, everyone see’s they’re performing better, everyone jumps to join them. It’s the same cycle every expac, its why shaman were ignored for the better part of BFA. It’s why we go through the same thing every expansion, but people never learn instead opting to QQ.
Being a good player does not mean they are perfectly non biased. I’ve seen very good players say some BS stuff because of their bias.
Fire has been a very solid top third of the meter DPS for weeks now. Being under tuned means lower than the middle of the pack and Fire is not lower than the middle.
1 Like
I admit, you have a point. I think he means that fire is undertuned compared to the top dps specs, to which… he is right. You can check numbers if you want.
Either way, frost is still very bad, which was the point of the original post, and my main point.
When you have the best players in the world, who have theorycrafted and calculated every possible situation for the best outcome only running 1 fire mage and mainly just for the AI, it doesn’t mean fire is good. Those guilds stacked MM hunters, UH DKs, AFF locks, and boomies. That is what preheat is saying fire needs tuning to match.
Either that or those classes still need nerfs. Fire is still viable. I’m not arguing it isn’t.
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At this point, I’m not going to read what you say because you are either trolling or can’t understand simple concepts.
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Too lazy to read just means you can’t be bothered to understand.
Gotcha.
Well, yes, but do any of us think the top is what Blizzard intended all specs to be or how to judge all others? I think the middle or what block is largest in close numbers is considered “the Bar”.
If we were to eliminate the top 3 spec outliers (that is what would call them) Fire is balanced and fairly in close to 10 other specs.
I agree that the outliers need a 5% nerf or more.
1 Like