I really wanted to level my dh as vengeance but so far the experience has been pretty horrible. I seem to take more damage than havoc, deal less damage obviously, and when it comes to pvp… well, yesterday a havoc dh of equal level completely curb stomped me.
Is vengeance just bad for anything outside of tanking dungeons?
If you’re somehow taking more damage, it’s a you issue and not vengeance issue.
Havoc is better in all forms of pvp, except for flag carrying.
Havoc is better in all forms of pvp, except for flag carrying. For world PvP, dueling, arena, havoc is just plain better in almost every situation. Vengeance doesn’t do near the damage of other tank specs in pvp.
I think its more that because i kill things slower, i end up taking more damage over the duration of each fight
Spirit bomb and soul cleave both heal. If you’re just leveling you shouldn’t be taking anywhere near a lot of damage.
Generally in PvP the role of a tank is to be more of a disrupter, CC, and peel that sort of thing. 1v1 you may win by attrition than outright victory. Vengeance in PvP can be okay with the right talents and with the right group. I haven’t leveled a DH from the start since legion and before the all the pruning of key abilities but like most tanks they are normally the best spec to level as you can pull multiple mobs and grind them all down at once.
Now that I am geared, Havoc blows away VDH in open world stuff, even 122’s. However, VDH should have no problem grabbing up a huge pack of stuff and spirit bombing them down.
This class is amazing in so many different and unique ways.
What’s unique about it? The fact that you do everything with 3 buttons and there’s no wrong way to play it?
Fortnite class as far as I’m concerned.
That’s a fine flavor of Toxic Salt you’ve got brewing, Shiraz. 
Thanks, it’s fitting for the simpleton class.
Number of buttons doesn’t equal complexity.
See Disc priest vs shaman.
You are 111…come back when you have done content with a DH and comment.
But I can do everything a max level DH can.
Disc has quite a few buttons and is the hardest healer in the game to play.
Unfortunately DH has the least amount of buttons is the by FAR the easiest to play. Anybody that says different is in pure denial
I play all the healers. Shaman has wayyy more skills to use but disc is harder because of class mechanics.
Therefore, number of skills doesn’t equal how hard a class is.
DH is pretty easy but can be made more complex using the momentum talent. Doesn’t give more buttons but adds a level of mechanical difficulty to the class.
I don’t bother with Havoc. I leveled as Vengeance both in Legion, and again in BfA. I have no issues in world pvp, and its exceedingly rare I lose a 1v1, or even a 1v2 in world pvp. In terms of completing quests and whatnot, I obviously don’t have the same dps as havoc, but I can also easily pull a dozen mobs at a time without issue to make up some of the difference.
You can pretty much pull that many with Havoc as well. Sure a bit higher risk but is doable.
Disc is only hard if taking wrong talents and there is nothing to dot, its actually pretty simple compared to shaman as Disc can passively heal.
As DH, no one should be taking momentum - whether difficult or not.