Vancleef Did NOTHING Wrong!

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
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Edwin Vancleef was justified! Nearing the onset of release lets get a refesher. When the Alliance captured Stormwind back from the Horde in the 2nd war, they found it in ruins. So the house of nobles hired the Stonemasons Guild to bring the city back to its former glory.

But when the masons lead by Vancleef were told to shove it at payment, they revolted and formed the Defias Brotherhood. Welcome to the concept of the grey area. What do ya’ll think about the iconic Edwin Vancleef in this context? The hero we didnt deserve…

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Van’Cleef got screwed to be sure, but you know who also didn’t do anything wrong?

All those farmers in Westfall they attacked and stole from that were forced to create the People’s Militia just to survive.

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Red is dead, though.

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For sure. Thing is the Defias were forced to live off the land and people of the Kingdom that screwed them tbh. Work for months on end, then as a payment you’re basically kicked out of Stormwind and your employer is forcefully disbanded.

Whatre they supposed to do?

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Except the part where he got all murdery and stuff.

I mean, I feel for the guy getting ripped off by the corrupt but it doesn’t mean you need to go and shank old farmer Bob because of it.

EDIT: Now Vanessa, she might have a case for it.

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Not reduce yourselves to common bandits that steal from innocent farmers instead of the nobles that wronged them, probably.

You kind of lose the moral high ground as soon as you start stabbing innocent people for their stuff.

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spoiler warning :laughing:
from the very start the human questlines are about onyxia trying to destroy the alliance from within.

  • soldiers are off fighting in distant battles away form the capital, it is up to you to keep the peace, gee why are all the soldiers sent away spread out so much?

  • orcs, murlocs, and furblogs getting uppity because soldiers all away, citizens pleas for aid go mostly ignored, forced to send militia out to stop it

  • vancleef leading a revolution of sorts because certain nobles (hmm i wonder who orchestrated this!?) screwed over the masons

  • later find out onyxia was pulling strings in the kingdom the whole time

Its a pretty decent story thing that starts off with the starting zone and ends at level 60 doing attunement for a raid.

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I can think of a couple wrong turns he made.

  1. building a ship inside a cavern with no navigable way out.
  2. hiring a murlock cook. Was he trying to poison his own men?
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steal from innocent farmers instead of the nobles that wronged them, probably.

The noblemen are the landlords in a feudal system. Living off the land and people of Westfall etc IS stealing from them. Whats the alternative? Breaking into the nobles kitchen looking for food en masse?

Im not saying the Defias have the moral high ground. Killing people immediately makes them look bad, but the difference is they didnt chose that life. They were reduced to it. The nobles willingly decided to screw the Stonemasons en masse, starting this entire fiasco. Do they have the high ground?

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Living off the land would imply that they themselves are farming or hunting wildlife. Westfall has tons of boars, even if many are missing their livers =P

The nobles have no high ground to stand on, but the Defias definitely did something wrong when they became common bandits.

Van’Cleef himself was defeated by a group of adventurer’s send by the People’s Militia, not by Stormwind.

The People’s Militia was a group formed by those very farmers they stole from and killed.

So they kind of had it coming =P

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The cavern actually has a pretty big door that leads to STV! And tbh how dare you slander the literal god-chef Cookie.

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Cookie’s tenderizer was magic. Don’t dis on cookie!

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He had a caged Siamese cat in his pantry of ingredients. Murlocks like him are why D.E.H.T.A. had to form.

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Vegetarian freak tree hugging hippie commies the lot of them I tell ya!

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That siamese cat cage is one of my primary goals for classic. I will have a pet cat follow me around!

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This coming from a Night elf Psh.

As i said before Vancleef’s mistake was not seizing the means of productions.

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You judge an entire race by the actions of a few? Someone needs sensitivity training classes! :sunglasses:

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I live in a country where crime it’s very common, and yes those criminals are poor people that were screwed for our politicians since decades. Those criminals also assault and kill common folks, not to politicians.
Now, IMHO, what they do those criminals is wrong, doesn’t matter if they were driven to that life style by bad politicians. You can suffer a tragedy in your life, but that doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable that you spread more misery in the world because you were a victim of some tragedy in the past. If we found that as an acceptable thing, we will be destroying each other in an endless cicle.
This is an example of how grey morals can lead us to caos and destrucction.

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Loot is good so bandit are bad.

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