Valeera spoilers(ish)

Existing outside of their formal chain of command or diplomatic structure, and just being a completely autonomous person who just so happens to work closely with Anduin Wrynn is a very stable premise, imo.

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This is satire, right?

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O.o no? A big part of Valeeraā€™s whole thing is she bluntly refuses to take sides between Alliance and Horde, as she does not feel either faction as ever done her anything good. Her loyalty to Anduin comes from her ties to Varian back in their gladiator-slave days.

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Right but Anduin is the head of the Alliance, and things that negatively impact the Alliance negatively impact Anduin.

Look, if they want an actual neutral group spying on the Horde for the betterment of the world, just use the Shado Pan or something. And, hey, they can stick a few of them in Stormwind too, for good measure.

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I do not understand the instinct to conflate those relationships. Anduin is not the Alliance, philosophically speaking. I understand that heā€™s the leader, but thereā€™s really not even a fine line there. Sometimes he will want things or want to do things that are not in the Allianceā€™s best interest, or not in the Allianceā€™s best interest right away.

While he can ask her to do Alliance things like spy on the Horde, he could also ask her to do something that he could not normally do as the leader of the Alliance, such as spy on someone within the Alliance, or move through neutral territory as a non-partisan actor. He could ask her to steal Taliaā€™s diary to see if sheā€™s writing about him. Sheā€™s a fixer.

My point is that she serves a really interesting role as someone who doesnā€™t need to have a pvp flag attached to her.

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So long this ā€œAnduinā€™s sword holderā€ disappears from Zuldazar. But I am also very annoyed that theyā€™re shoving Wrynnā€™s spy to the middle of Hordeā€™s capital without option to kick her out.

I was throwing bottles at her each month to move from troll capital but she didnā€™t get a clue :unamused:

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If you say youā€™re neutral but you serve a faction leader, youā€™re not actually neutral. Anduin being the leader is the entire point of why itā€™s so bizarre that the game is seemingly trying to push her as a neutral (or horde?) character. You canā€™t separate Anduin from his role. And as long as Valeera serves him, she should be treated as a member of his group.

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Well itā€™s nice to know that the Alliance can canonically impose its will on the Horde now. Why else would we allow an Alliance asset to parade herself in the Hordeā€™s capital?

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Weā€™re talking about Anduin here - heā€™s never going to desire anything that isnā€™t in the best interests of the Alliance. The only disagreement is over what actually is (or isnā€™t) in the best interests of the Alliance.

And, no, being someoneā€™s personal fixer but simply not waving around an Alliance banner does not automatically make someone neutral.

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An Alliance asset is likely the head of the new Horde Council.

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I mean, two things. Oneā€“we donā€™t really know that. There is already a growing rift between Tyrande/Genn and Anduin. I personally donā€™t expect much to come of it, but weā€™ll see. He may utilize Valeera against them if he feels he canā€™t use Shaw, for instance.

Two, understand that Iā€™m the kind of person who believes that not waving around an Alliance banner is absolutely the kind of thing that makes you neutral, or at least neutralish, or neutral enough. WoW isnā€™t really interested in telling these sorts of stories, which is fine, but off the top of my head I can easily envision a scenario in which Baine or Gallywix asks Valeera to be removed from Orgrimmar, but Lorā€™themar intercedes and declines. We already know, canonically, that Lorā€™themar has strong feelings about the ā€œsons and daughters of Silvermoonā€ being allowed their birthrights and so itā€™s not a stretch at all for him to insist she be allowed a place in the Horde capital.

Iā€™m not sure what that storyline would be for, but it would be a cool way to tell a story about how the factions wonā€™t always be cleanly demarcated.

Gallywix is gone and Baine will never oppose Anduin. Valeera was Baineā€™s courier even.

Also, sheā€™s been standing around in Dazā€™Alor uncontested, which presumably means somehow Talanji didnā€™t kick her out. And if Talanji wonā€™t, why would the others?

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This expansion alone has shown more than anything that Anduinā€™s concerns are not the concerns of the Alliance as a whole. And can, in fact, be detrimental to them. Like when he threw actual, living members of the Alliance under the bus to rebuild a long dead Human kingdom. Or spent the entire back half of the expansion fretting over ā€œhealingā€ the Horde, and helping them believe in themselves (or some cac), instead of pursuing (much less, achieving) anything even remotely resembling justice for two entire member-states of the Alliance.

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I mean, I donā€™t know. As I saidā€“they donā€™t have a real reason to because sheā€™s a blood elf.

(Also, look, I just want a scene where Valeera and Anduin talk about girls. Is that too much to ask? Blizz???)

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Honestly, I think Valeera is the worst kind of ā€œneutralā€ character. Her words say that sheā€™s not alliance, but her relationship with the Wrynn family put her opposite of the horde. Both factions should reject her and sheā€™d have to rely on immunities just to be allowed to remain in Stormwind and maybe Silvermoon, but not as a figure for anyone to trust, other than Anduin.

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Youā€™re right. From the Alliance perspective she has flaky loyalty at best and doesnā€™t even care about their interests so why is she allowed in their cities and privy to their inner workings? Worst kind of neutral indeed.

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That makes me feel real hopeful for the futureā€¦:upside_down_face:

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Ehā€¦ itā€™s not surprising. Sheā€™s more than likely there on Anduinā€™s behalf, like Baine is in SW on the Hordes. Valeera was the go between for Anduin and Baines correspondence.

Head pats anyway.