So I think pretty much everyone knows that hunters biggest issue in M+ for not getting invited is their lack of utility now (it used to also be survivability) but with some of the changes in 10.1.5 (I think that was the patch) hunters are actually more durable now and simply lacking group utility from getting them invited to more high end dungeons (I also understand that hunter is one of the most popular overall classes and I think blizzard is afraid to make them too strong because of their popularity and ease of play but thatâs beside the point.)
The fix to hunters utility problems seems pretty simple to me, they could do any or all of the above and think it would help.
A. Revert the binding shot change and return it to an aoe root (they could nerf it to like 5 seconds maybe to compensate if they feel 8 seconds is too strong but imo a 3 second aoe stun that canât be used as an aoe stop is kinda dogâŚ)
B. Move wailing arrow to the class tree or up higher in the spec tree. The only other specs with cc in their spec tree are Spriest and Boomkin and their in the top row. (also either allow surv to use it or add some kind of compenstory cc for them.) (also probably make the Marks knockback shot baseline or put it where intimidation is for them since theyâre never going to play a pet by choice.)
C. Bring back pet buffs⌠I donât know if this one helps hunters as much in 5 man content but its better than where theyâre at now.
A knock up would be better, I still think its kinda weak with the travel time and arm time required to actually stop a cast but that would be an improvement forsure.
Iâd dig a Spear of Bastion copy, tbh. You know, something that actually binds the enemies?
Binding Shot isnât a shot that binds things. It just gives them whiplash / an electrical shock when they break house arrest from their walls-less home.
A draw-in that then actually prevents them from leaving instead of stunning them away from the AoE gather when they dash-attack a random player? Iâd dig that. Less mitigation if/when maintaining tank offensive uptime, possibly, but itâd actually do as labelled.
As for HET, Iâd just like to see its arming time reduced and maybe have it bind (hidden debuff, no DR) enemies entering its detonation range within its quarter-second or so activation time so that if, say, 5 mobs approach it from roughly the same angle and reach it within that same quarter-second, theyâre all launched back in roughly the same direction instead of the first being catapulted further towards where they were going and the last not being hit at all. Or something to that QoL/reliability-improving effect.
In terms of total utility, though⌠god, I feel like the Class Tree needs tweaks, across nearly the whole thing, mostly in making a couple skills baseline, offering more impactful/useful choices, and pruning some bloat, etc.
ya these are cool ideas also and giga agree that the class tree needs fixing, I was just saying what I think could be quick easy fixes with things that already exist or previously existed⌠but I suppose we likely arenât getting any changes til the war within anyway so hoping for bigger changes might be viable.
People will argue that Hunters have utility. The issue is our utility is either buggy(traps), undertuned(Sentinel Owl), or convoluted(Binding Shot). We also offer nothing unique or beneficial to the other players in the group. Hunterâs Mark got us a spot in raids, but is virtually useless in convincing M+ groups to choose us.
Some ideas I had for utility:
Enemies affected by Tar Trap do X% less damage. âAffectedâ is the key here, because it would only apply to targets not immune to snares. This would make it ideal for trash packs, while not trivializing any boss encounters.
Sentinel Owl should increase the range of those affected for the duration by 5-10 yards. This would help everyone when needed, but would be particularly useful for melee and healers.
Binding Shot should be reverted. However, I would settle for significantly longer duration. Right now, it disappears before most tanks are even aware itâs down. Reducing the duration in PvP would be expected.
Bring back Aspect of the Pack; raid-wide Cheetah on a 3 min cooldown.
Redesign Hunterâs Mark. It still chaps my hide that we spent so long asking for a raid buff, with the specific request that it not be tied to Hunterâs Mark, then getting this convoluted atrocity.
I think binding shot acting as a ranged pull in would be a fantastic change and explosive trap really needs to be a knock up - then we would have not only AoE interrupt options but could also contribute to getting mobs where they need to be.
Agreed wailing arrow needs to be higher in the tree and should be a proper kick type interrupt with the AoE remaining just the silence it is currently.
I dont mind traps being ground target vs direct target but they should be instant - the slide across the floor and arm delay sucks.
Move lust to baseline, give us pet spec trees back - there was ZERO legitimate reason to remove this other than laziness when it came to supporting/balancing them.
Give us back Aspect of the Pack and let our Cheetah work like other classes charge based speed boosts instead of this 2000âs era archaic garbage on a stupid long cooldown.
Hunters mark needs to go - either that or make it autoapply with trickshots or ricochets and change it to be 5% from 100% to 80% and 20% to 0% and 2% from 80% to 20% - that would make it an overall 4% damage increase bringing it inline with what other classes bring.
Agree with most of your other points, but wanted to comment on these two.
Old school Cheetah was a permanent aspect, but you would be dazed if struck. The same downside applied to Aspect of the Pack. I much prefer the current version of Cheetah, though I think it should be a shorter cooldown.
4% would make it too strong. Average gain from other classes is ~2.5%, because they donât apply to everyone in the group/raid. In my opinion, Hunterâs Mark should either be 5% from 100-80 and 20-0, or just a flat 2% from 100-0. That would make it still the weakest raid buff in the game, but closer to other classes.
And we donât want it. If we have it good like that, then why so hard to get invited to M+? It is the over blown stigma for the class. Same people that assume all hunters are bad or just have hate/jealousy are the same kind of puppets that believe everything they see on TV. They are easily told HOW to think and unable to think for themselves. I roll my 3200+ hunter and I am a bad player. But if I roll a âwe got all the good stuff, ez to playâ pally, with the same rating, I am suddenly a good player. GTFO with that sissy ish
AoE Stun - Yup, itâs terrible and convoluted.
AoE Slow - Ground targeted, which makes it situational.
Hard CC - Freezing Trap is ground targeted, has travel time, arm time, and breaks on damage.
ST Stun - 1 minute cooldown, but otherwise a decent stun.
Knockback - Explosive Trap is a disaster of design. No matter how well itâs placed, due to travel and arm time can send mobs in random directions. Also a choice node with our ST Stun, so canât have both.
Soothe - No complaints from me.
Bloodlust - Requires a Ferocity pet, which means less health for the Hunter(less âtankyâ), and one less self-heal.
Essentially, if you include every single utility ability, ignore the drawbacks of these abilities, and forget that we canât have them all at the same time, then it probably seems fine. /sarcasm
Just compared to ret pally we have a longer cd single target stun, you have an aoe blind thats instant cast, if you want to count freezing trap as something then Iâd just say ret can have repentance⌠So hunters have a trash aoe stun and a ground placed aoe slow advantage and lose the aoe blind⌠on top of all those ret also has 1 min cd sac, freedom, bop, the best immunity in the game, can off heal, can cleanse, and has a melee kick?.. Also ret is actually unkillable compared to hunters being âkinda tankyâ
I dig it. Iâd be fine also with it just affecting auto-attack and casting speeds, rather than damage outright.
This seems a bit much to me. Though, admittedly, making the most of Lungeâs 8y melee range feels a bit too air-swishy to me, so pet peeves play a part there.
Cool.
Is it bad that Iâd dig a dynamic CD a la Aura Mastery, such that we can expand to the whole raid the most recently cast action among AotCheetah, AotEagle, etc.?
(Ideally, Iâd also change Survival of the Fittest into Aspect of the Bear, Camouflage into Aspect of the Lynx, etc.)
Aye. I still would prefer just to have a raid aura that increases critical strike chance by 5% and guaranteed critical strike damage by 5% against enemies above 80% HP. Simple and no-fuss in exchange for its only affecting enemies for a fifth of their HP.
If Binding gets an actual lock-in (keeping victims from moving out of its area of effect), we could just use that to turn HET into a knock-up. Draw-in to AoE interrupt the first time (45s CD), then knock them about only by at most 3 yards (basically just a knock-up) thereafter, before the lock-in expires. Not quite as responsive, but nor do you lose the ability to launch ranged enemies into the gather or out of Sanguine.
Yeah deifnitely not Vanilla Aspect of the Daze and Aspect fo the Group Daze era, I more meant older type movement stuff in general not just ours but yes agreed its better than the Daze model but sill horrendously outdated and needs a second charge and shorter cooldown.
Thats fair - 5% from 100 to 80 and 5% from 20 to 0 would be how Iâd split it so it acts as a phaser and an execute.
AoE Stun - Binding Shot is useless unless the tank sees it in time and moves the pull to make them stop. Its clunky, relies on someone else to make it work and is just bad.
Tar Trap is incredibly situational and mostly useless
Ice trap has a slide across the floor and arm delay and if the mob moves oh well. Also every tried to hit one specific target in amongst a pull? This weeks affix is a great example if the ghost spawns in amongst the trash good luck getting a freezing trap on it. And trying to use it to trap a moving target is almost impossible because you have to cast it in front of them with enough delay to arm and hope whoever they are running at doesnt move and nothing else runs near the spot.
ST Stun? You mean intimidation? The skill MM hunters need to summon a pet sacrificing 10% damage and then send the pet to the stun location to then enact said stun on a 1 minute cooldown?
Or do you mean Scattershot where we have to give up long range binding shot and the ability to affect a whole pull so we can be forced to run in and momentarily interrupt 1 mob?
The knockback is placed at a spot in the tree where the only way to take it will cut off branches of required talents and completely cripple the class. This ability is only a theoretical one.
Soothe - yay on very specific bosses and weeks we can de-enrage 1 mob in the group and we get to do this maybe 1 week a month where this is useful. And at the cost of a talent point.
Bloodlust even blizzard dont count as utility and ours is tied to having to have our pet out and it has to be a specific type of pet thats also not the best for us and also sacrifices 10% of our damage if youre MM. And we also lose HP from not having a tenacity pet. And we also lose a self heal from not having a Tenacity pet.
Compared to other classes which get more universal versions of all of this stuff, with easier use cases, higher in the tree or as just baseline on shorter cooldownsâŚ
The issue is every other class can do all of those things better AND bring more DPS AND contribute to most affixes. We have nothing on the same level as Anti Magic Shell, Vamipiric Embrace, other classes group buffs, Ring of Peace, all the bubbles cleanses Pallies bring, rogue interrupt ability and group stealth, priest mind soothe, warlock stones and gates, I could go on forever.
We have on paper OK stuff but in reality we have clunkier less useful beta versions of the bare minimum and everyone else has the full release easy to use versions and then extra stuff on top.
I feel like this one is okay, actually? It does whatâs on the tin just fine, and though fewer without Necrotic, there are still situations where thatâs useful. Itâs not always worth taking, but thatâs only a problem because of Wilderness Medicine being even more niche in PvE than Tar Trap is.
Thatâs just the ages-old Lone Wolf problem. If not for the obvious detriment to theme, just axing the talent and effect entirely and baselining its damage bonus would both put MM utility more nearly on par and improve their ST damage, their biggest present weakness (especially in M+ builds).
Visually/thematically, I like, but Tar Trap achieves the same effect without inflicting DRs on its snare, without a target cap, and without any addition unreliability of the snakes needing to hit their targets.
It would probably need to do more than just provide snares [movement speed reduction], such as causing any of various other poison effects as well (cast speed slow, damage reduction auto-attack slow, healing received reduction, etc.) based on the snake type, with cast speed slowing snake prioritizing casters / anyone casting, etc.
