I think with a few modifications these have massive potential to be amazing m+ training tools. Currently there isn’t a great way to learn dungeons. You can watch lengthy guides closely, but nothing beats first hand experience. Even doing a dungeon a few times isn’t enough as you might be oblivious to other people dealing with mechanics. It often takes failure or death before you really learn about something important, but nobody wants to fail a hundred times before they are competent at a dungeon.
My proposed modifications:
-Be able to set the key level to maybe a maximum of +6. I wouldn’t be against setting it to any level, but I could see Blizzard not wanting the top players be able to set it to nosebleed levels.
-Be able to set your ilvl and your allies ilvl
-Allow yourself, allies, and enemies to be invincible, preferably toggleable. This is so that you can see and do mechanics endlessly. It would also be helpful for an indicator for when you would have died which would be valuable for all 3 roles. Maybe you could just have normal health and when you reach zero it just heals you back to full with a death notification.
-Give a “death’s touch” extra action button so you can instantly kill enemies so you can see certain parts of the dungeon without having to slog through the whole dungeon up to that point.
Now obviously you couldn’t have mobs drop loot, but something like this would be infinitely better to learn m+ dungeons than the current follower dungeons. Last season I tried using the follower dungeon to get familiarized with the dungeons and it was largely a waste of time. Nothing does any damage, a lot of mechanics are missing, and even the mechanics that exist you barely see because everything dies so fast even if you do nothing. Before follower dungeons I could always empathize with all the extra work a mode like this might take, but with the existence of follower dungeons the infrastructure is already there. Many of these changes are so little extra work that as a novice coder I feel like I could probably implement them.
as a tank main since 2009, that sounds smart. some of the biggest hold-ups is the pull cadence, what mobs pat where, and what mobs can be skipped - and still make percent (which I like using Mythic Dungeon Tools for , MTD, or keystone guru’s website).
Use follower dungeons as they are to learn the basics of the dungeon routes and base mechanics first. Then bring friends and guildies into M0 to learn for M+. That’s why it’s there.
i do agree with this in the sense that i’m ok with folks - who are new - learning and failing. The biggest issue with organized content like this is a misalignment of expectations. If everyone parties up and understands ‘hey, we’re gunna be playing this one a bit by ear, just fyi, lemme know if i’m doing something dumb with pathing, etc.’ then that’s fine.
Completely agree, ideally the group would communicate about expectations before starting. If 2 people want a quick clear for IO and 3 people want a chill 52 minute run for gear and practice, it could be a problem if they find out 20 minutes into the run
I disagree. People need to be ok with random nobodies being uset and not take it to heart. People being scared of upsetting some random guy on the internet is a problem.
Right now I spam 2-4s as a healer as my learning ground, but I still feel in a mode like this I could learn much more in depth. Pugging random groups in these low keys I’ve been seeing about a 5 to 1 completion to depletion ratio so it’s largely been successful groups, but I’m seeing a lot of people complain about these low levels being too difficult and I feel like a mode like this could benefit a lot of people.
I like to learn without the timer first, having the same mechanics and similar difficulty. That, and it is the literal stepping stone into M+. That… people never use. LOL
It just takes sooo long to learn. I’ve done every dungeon more than once but it just takes so long before I get to the point where as a healer I feel completely relaxed because I understand every little thing that’s happening at any given time…and what makes learning as a healer especially difficult in early season is there is a lot of extra healing and crisis moments due to people’s lack of knowledge…and my focus is more on keeping the group alive than trying to look around and figure out exactly what is happening and why.
I couldn’t imagine waiting until I could anticipate every single last little thing that might occur and having a dungeon memorized like that.
As a healer, I used to learn in M0 a couple times, then start running the keys and work my way up. I didn’t bother with knowing every single last tiny detail. The higher we got, the more we learned and the more that happens, because more affixes, damage, etc. So I was never going to know everything all the time anyway.
I healed, did the DPS I could, interrupt in the order I was supposed to and did the mechanics. But it was instinct and learning on the go as I climbed up the keys that worked for me.
Well, I don’t wait until I have full knowledge before climbing…and even if this mode existed it’s not like I would spend endless hours before doing m+, I just want to speed up the learning process as much as possible while also doing the best I can in the keys that I do run…and the learning never really stops either. Throughout the whole season you improve, learn optimizations, learn tidbits of information that you didn’t know, etc.
I just feel that people should use M0 for this intended purpose. Because that’s the entire point of going from Normal to Heroic to M0: to learn before getting into M+. Especially from M0. Otherwise… why does it even exist?
My only issue with this whole idea, you’re missing the human element… how people react to things, panic, etc etc. That in my eyes is a large variable in this equation.
Sure, but I think in a mode like this…You could learn far more spending an hour in a dungeon seeing every mechanic, every cast, see exactly how much damage everything does…and you would learn more than if you spent that hour running that dungeon in an m0 twice.
EDIT: both are helpful, it’s not like this would be a replacement, it would be a supplemental tool.
