Right now in M+ the standard is to kill the Urnh ecryption for the CD Reduction. As a balance druid our 3 Minute CD’s are tied to our strongest trinket, “IQD”, However the CD reduction we get from Urnh is useless since we must wait for IQD to come off cooldown. Please make trinkets have the same reduction as the cooldowns, or else Balance druids and other classes that tie 3 minutes to their trinkets are at a massive disadvantage compared to other players that don’t. Thanks
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It’s not a competition. Also, this opens up the Meta for builds that do utilize it.
I agree with the OP. Urh not reducing the CD of trinkets is a bug, not a feature.
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The spots in M+ are very competetive, and you typically won’t get invited to higher keys unless you are one of the Meta classes. Right now theres some classes that get insane CD Reductions with Urnh. and other classes that are tied to the 3 minute trinkets get nothing. It’s an unfair playing field.
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So what you’re saying is that the affix is affecting the meta which might result in different meta classes? So the meta is changing/will change? And then you’ll be sad because you’re not in the meta?
Welcome to how all non-meta specs feel already.
That said, I would like to see Urh reduce trinket CD’s. Not to support 3 min classes, but because it should.
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That’s not what I said even the slightest, quit projecting. I stated that Urnh should reduce CD of trinkets so offer a better playing field for all classes. Why does there have to ben a big advantage or some classes and not for others, when it comes to a season M+ Affix? you in favor of an un-even playing field?
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I guess I’ll be more direct. Maybe Venthyr + IQD just isn’t meta for balance in keys and instead of wallowing, you should try stuff that matches the affixes current meta, especially in pugs, since that’s how you’re choosing to engage with the content.
lol no, of course I’m not in favor of an uneven playing field. But that’s literally what a meta seeks to capitalize on, imbalances. This is just one of the things that could (if meaningful enough) make a class fall out of meta and I think it’s funny coming from a balance druid.
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This is maybe one of those things where it might just be helpful to know what the intent is. Does Blizzard want trinkets to be excluded from the CDR? If so, the meta will change around it. If not, knowing that Blizzard considers this a bug and intends to fix it will help manage expectations, even if a fix isn’t immediately forthcoming.
I’m sure people will complain one way or another, but just having the knowledge of what should happen here will help a lot 
A meta supposedly changing because of an oversight, or because what should be normal/intuitive gameplay temporarily stops working before it goes back to “normal”, isn’t really something to laud or defend.
I suspect Blizzard may have thought about excluding trinkets because they don’t want to really think about/affect item balance, but probably hasn’t thought about trinket vs spell cooldowns in any major capacity.
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Your assumption is that they want trinkets to experience cdr. I automatically assume item cds, which aren’t tied to your character: trinkets, shields, weapon procs, fancy bracers on uses (BFA) are excluded. How they align or misalign with cooldown use means they lose or gain value.
In this scenario, IQD is losing value. This wouldn’t even be a thing if urh isn’t selected. So if build A loses value with urh, does build B? Perhaps build B is the way to go if your group plans urh and Build A is super strong if your group goes Vy. We don’t have to talk about group metas when the build meta is an easy starting place.
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I literally said otherwise lol. In the very next sentence.
Trinkets (and classes who use them) are specifically budgeted/balanced around how they align with cooldown use; this is also why you see trinket cooldowns conveniently in normal cooldown levels like 1 min, 2 min etc., and not say, random 1 min 10 second cooldown trinkets - barring very rare exception. As an example, the output of Venthyr Druids was adjusted (even just now in 9.2) based on the output they were getting WITH synced up IQD and CA.
Yeah, this isn’t really a thing. Pretty much anyone who’s actually having desynced effects is just switching from one fool’s choice to another, and that’s assuming there’s even an alternative that comes close. For many specs, there’s only one Covenant/build that’s remotely viable, and they rely on it working smoothly to BE viable. Knocking that down doesn’t somehow “open up” anything.
Were talking about balance. Blood mallet Sims 2 3m trinkets as the top 2 in St.
IQD 16.55
Empyreal ord 14.16
Then, a 1.5m trinket
Moonlit prism at 13.5
Bear in mind that these Sims are assuming 3m cds the only way to Sim this away would be a fight length of 45s with 5+ enemies and a Sim of 5+ enemies in 2.5m. Both of which would give you a more accurate Sim for a trash pull. Which is the vast majority of time spent in keys.
Nevermind that Sim data can be unreliable to player experience for 99.9% of all players.
The “theres only 1 viable build” is something only horrid players claim most of the time. Usually it’s proven wrong by some mega Chad later on that the “meme build” just performs better in reality.
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Balance is only one of the specs we’re talking about. That’s established right in the OP, and they’ve made sure to mention multiple classes and not limit discussion to Balance in every post.
If you don’t know how a spec plays, this is a terrible attempt to try and understand how it would work. Just stop.
I strongly disagree. On use trinkets would become exponentially more powerful then anything else in the game. Although I understand the frustration of your “go” being desynced with your trinkets, the CD reduction on them would just cause too much imbalance. This is coming from someone who absolutely loves on use trinkets on all of my relevant characters. I’m just trying to be realistic about it.
Strong agree with this perspective!
I mean, Haste increases the proc frequency of RPPM trinkets, and it’s not like anyone’s concerned that a Haste buff theoretically skews the balance of RPPM trinkets vs. on-use trinkets.
On-use trinkets (and the cooldowns they sync with) are all balanced around the ability to sync with each other anyway; the only way they should be able to “cause too much imbalance” is if they were already imbalanced.
Are you insinuating that I’m not capable of understanding the blow everything at once specs?
Don’t worry, just like every other season, the forums will be flooded by these threads and in a few months when the good players or Chinese region gets to looking at these things, the Meta will be adjusted with something else.
Glimmer wasn’t immediately adopted. It was considered a crap trait, then someone stacked it and paladin became the Meta healer for the rest of the expansion.
In vanilla warrior was considered unplayable until “bill Cosby” challenged that with how broken it was when you strung together kills.
The na/eu paladins were swearing by a prot paladin build and the Chinese were getting bigger results with another.
Instead of changing the rules to match you, change you to match the rules.
More egg head, less potato head.
I’m sure they could run a simple test to see what would be more beneficial. On use + CDs with Urh or passive trinkets at a similar ilevel with Vy. I personally find the on use trinkets to be more impactful in keys when lined up with CDs. DPS isn’t always black and white. Your ability to burst as a group more often to get passed difficult parts of dungeons that would otherwise become a wall for you is invaluable. A dungeon slice or patchwork sim, while helpful for initial guidance, is not the be all end all when it comes to dungeons that vary pull to pull and dungeon to dungeon. Even if the “sims” are close overall (which we still don’t know) there is nothing like actually being in there and experiencing it. I don’t like not having my ruby for every ashen or desyncing with my dtoll but having a trinket like that on a short cd would just be too strong in a timed dungeon. My choices are to be more careful and conscience of my on use trinkets usage or run passive trinkets that I otherwise wouldn’t have used last season. I like this. I think it makes more trinkets valuable then ever before because of all of the new variables.
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You two are aware the person you’re arguing with has not done a 10 or higher keystone yet, and hasn’t even seen the affix right?
Like I get the people that are arguing are looking specifically at their trinkets, guess what? OPC doesn’t line up with cooldowns for half of the melee now either, and Ruby doesn’t align for 80% of the casters.
I know this might be shocking, but people aren’t running Uhr because it’s “the best for DPS”, if we were optimizing DPS in a complete vaccum we would be doing Vy everytime. There are a laundry list of reasons why we’re killing Uhr, and only half of them are it helps the DPS do more overall damage throughout the run.