Update Hunter Pls

Classes Hunter
41

Again, have you even looked at the data? Demon Hunters play nothing like Hunters. Why would an unusually larger amount of Hunters leave compared to classes similar to Demon Hunters like DKs, Rogues and Warlocks (who were the second, third and fourth classes that lost players, but still pretty far behind Hunters).

Heck, SV was added as a melee spec. That would make it even less likely that Hunter players would drop the class for a melee class.

Yes, there are other reasons, such as the poor changes that happened to BM and MM as well. But again, Hunters lost way more than all the other classes (many of which also had controversial changes). It can’t just be written off to the same reasons that other classes lost players, because Hunters lost way way more.

As for the ‘tiny’ amount of players that left the Hunter class, I did the math years ago, and the number is ~250,000. Ya a real tiny insignificant number there, huh?

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42

The entire discussion in the later half of this thread is about SV. Please enlighten us as to what other part of SV would he be referring to over it becoming a melee spec? I didn’t say that was the only change to hunters going into Legion. I am saying however it’s the one being discussed. I’m laughing that you can’t follow a conversation a child could follow…

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43

I’m sorry, I can’t hear you over you trying to make a statement and data fit your view. So, I’m just going to go, because arguing with you is like arguing with a wall.

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44

I’ll make this real simple, since you like to throw around numbers (never mind the fact you can’t support them)… Do us all a favor, tell us of those 250,000, how many quit WoW because of SV, how many quit WoW because they just wanted to quit, and how many rerolled to a different class, and how many rerolled to try out the new shiny class? Answer these questions with actual numbers that you can support and I won’t post in another SV thread.

And since you like to use worldofgraphs…

www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes

a whopping 1.5% difference between 1 and 5… that’s an amazing disparity…

45

Not even Blizzard’s internal data can answer the reasoning for why people stopped playing a class. Is this your end game? Once the numbers prove you wrong you demand that I read people’s minds to gain knowledge of the exact reason they stopped playing Hunter? Again, there is this thing called logic that can be used to interpret data. Is this a foreign concept to you? I’ve already explained all of this just a few minutes ago, but apparently you already forgot it:

Also, are you really trying to imply that 250,000 players is a ‘tiny’ amount by referring to it as a 1.5% change in class popularity?

The disparity is 250,000 players.

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46

First, percentages are a far greater measure of disparity than numbers. Numbers without context are meaningless. The percentage is meaningful. You don’t use the percentage because it makes your argument stupid at best.

Second, you cannot in any way, shape, or form logically extrapolate why people quit playing hunter. You admit it in the very first sentence, and then immediately pretend that you can somehow logically deduce why people left the class.

Third, it takes a special kind of stupid to say you can’t determine reasoning because you don’t have the data, and in the same breath tell me the numbers proved me wrong. I honestly don’t think you know what logic is…

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47

You gotta make up random number and claim its the right valid info nowadays here.

So thats why 80% of the hunters play Survival and love it more than the other two. The polls dont lie!

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48

They are both meaningless without context. If there were 2 classes then a 1.5% difference would be tiny. If there were 50 classes then a 1.5% difference would be enormous. There are currently 12 classes, meaning that 1.5% of total representation isn’t the same thing as only 1.5% of Hunters leaving the class, and that is still quite a bit.

The context here is that there are less than 11 million people playing WoW. That was roughly the player counter when Blizzard stopped reporting on total player count, so I will just say that there are less than that number.

Here we see in the midst of WoD the Hunter class was at #1 with 12.7% of total players at lvl 100:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160614185245/http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes

But the current link that you gave shows that Hunters are sitting at #5 with 8.6% of the total players at lvl 120. So not only did Hunters drop by a lot going into Legion, but they’ve continued to drop. A difference of 4.1% is really big. You wanna guess how much all the other classes dropped? Let’s look:

Druid: 0%
Paladin: -0.1%
Warrior: -1%
Death Knight: -1.6%
Priest: -1.4%
Mage: -0.6%
Rogue: +0.8%
Warlock: -1.1%
Shaman: -1%
Monk: +0.3%
Hunter: -4.1%

Anything in particular stand out to ya? Man poor Death Knights, losing a ‘whopping’ 1.6%, right? But nah Hunters didn’t lose more players for any particular reasons. There must have been some sort of freak plague that only targeted Hunter players or something. That’s the only logical explanation. Couldn’t possibly be that the Hunter community is dissatisfied with the class.

Do you not understand the difference between a deduction of likelihood and your demand that I give you numbers as to exactly how many people quit playing for every potential reason? The only illogical one here is you alleging that we can’t learn anything from these numbers. No, we can’t graph with excruciating detail the personal reasons why every player quit. But we can use logic to deduce the most likely explanations.

We can learn plenty from the data that we do have. You just don’t want to accept it for some inane reason.

I just gave you the numbers. Do you want me to math it out? 12.7% of 11 million is 1,397,000 players. 8.6% of 11 million is 946,000. So from WoD to now (rather than from WoD to Legion, which is where the ~250,000 number came from) the Hunter playerbase lost ~451,000 players. This assumes a total playerbase of 11 million. If you don’t think that is accurate then go hound Blizzard for the actual numbers. Either way though, a HUGE chunk of players have left the Hunter class since WoD.

But naw I’m totes just making that up. Not like I have sources or anything.

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50

Demonstrate how I failed here, or are you just bluffing (read: lying) yet again?

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51

I dont think they teach statistics in high school anymore. Could be wrong. So many things are lacking nowadays in school…

52

Can you show how my math is wrong? Yes or no.

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53

I love fury, currently playing it on my warrior. But, I used to love mage in pvp. I would certainly play Arcane warrior. That would be the POOP!

But I am a minority here I’m sure.

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54

A spellsword would be a good idea for a new class. Probably never happen though. The only new classes ever introduced these days are ones specific to the lore of new xpacs. Really lame.

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55

I think I’m not understanding you or you misunderstand statistics. If DH caused people to reroll from hunter that wouldn’t drop them in the rankings unless more people left hunter for DH than other classes.

Also, wow losing players in legion overall wouldn’t cause hunter to go down in popularity ranking unless that class lost more people than other classes.

The point about the different in popularity between the top classes makes sense.

Also, you and Bepples arguing about why people played survival in the past, for fun or because of DPS, is a waste of time. Neither of you can prove why people played RSV, just whether they did or not.

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56

Why are you so needlessly hostile? We are discussing the minutiae of a 15 year old video game. It’s not a big deal.

Your rhetorical says more about you then someone’s “lack of reading comprehension” (according to you) says about them.

You are acting like a insufferable, spoiled child. I’m sure you are better than that.

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57

Ah…the parting ad hominem where the other person is sooo wrong you can’t even take the time to point out how.

This is the last refuge of someone who has lost an argument.

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58

Go back and take a remedial stats course, then come back. By the way, the first problem with his “stats” are the fact they’re garbage. Care to try again?

59

Since you are so intelligent, explain to a moron like me how a new class, demon hunters, existing at the same time that hunters saw a precipitous drop in play has a causal link. We morons call two things happening at the same time correlational and require further argument to humor a causal link.

My same objection holds for your contention about how a drop in subscriber numbers in legion explained the relative drop in hunter players.

An example, if 5 people all have $10 initially, but then all lose $1 they all still have the same relative amount ($9) with a total of $45. If we start with $50 (in the above example) but then 4 people have $10 and one has $5 then we have the same overall amount as before but one person lost more than the rest.

If hunters are less present relative to other classes that means they lost more players than other classes that can’t be explained merely by a loss of subscriptions.

Edit: again you haven’t made an argument. You are just attacking people again without making a point. Calling people stupid and their stats “garbage” isn’t an argument, it’s a temper tantrum.

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60

Someone once said:

First, percentages are a far greater measure of disparity than numbers. Numbers without context are meaningless. The percentage is meaningful. You don’t use the percentage because it makes your argument stupid at best.

Which is incorrect. Neither percentage values nor specific numbers mean anything without context. Neither are a meaningful base unless taken in context.

In Warlords of Draenor, we had 11 classes.

IF, in the midst of WoD, all classes held the exact same amount of max level characters, that would mean that each class made up for ~9.09% of the total character base in the game, at that time.

In Legion, they added another class, the Demon Hunter. Giving us a total of 12 classes.

This means that, even if the total amount of max level characters was still 11 million, the actual percentage value would be lower for each class despite there being no change in the specific number of characters at max level.

100% divided by 11 classes = ~9.09% for each class.
100% divided by 12 classes = ~8.33% for each class.

That equals a drop of ~0.76% for each class, even if the actual number of max level characters remains unchanged(which in itself, is unlikely).

Also worth noting is that, since that 12th class did not exist prior, it didn’t exactly drop in numbers, it only gained in numbers.

Some captions:
In WoD(june 2016) = Hunters made for 12.7% of all max level characters.
In Legion(june 2017) = Hunters made for 9.9% of all max level characters.
In BfA(june 2019) = Hunters made for 10.1% of all max level characters.
In BfA(dec 2019) = Hunters made for 8.6% of all max level characters.

Caption comparisons - all classes:

Based on 11 million total max level characters.
Below, you have the percentage value as well as the (number of max level characters)

Warlords(june 2016)
Hunter - 12.7% (1 397 000)
Druid - 11% (1 210 000)
Paladin - 10.7% (1 177 000)
Warrior - 9.8% (1 078 000)
Death Knight - 9.1% (1 001 000)
Priest - 8.4% (924 000)
Mage - 8.8% (968 000)
Rogue - 7.4% (814 000)
Warlock - 8% (880 000)
Shaman - 8.1% (891 000)
Monk - 5.9% (649 000)

Total: 99.99%

Legion(june 2017)
Hunter - 9.9% (1 089 000)
Druid - 10.9% (1 199 000)
Paladin - 10.3% (1 133 000)
Warrior - 8.8% (968 000)
Death Knight - 7.4% (814 000)
Priest - 7.1% (781 000)
Mage - 8.3% (913 000)
Rogue - 5.8% (638 000)
Warlock - 6.6% (726 000)
Shaman - 7.8% (858 000)
Monk - 5.4% (594 000)
Demon Hunter - 11.6% (1 276 000)

Total: 99.99%

Comparison difference from Warlords - Legion
Hunter: -2.8% (-308 000)
Druid: -0.1% (-11 000)
Paladin: -0.4% (-44 000)
Warrior: -1.0% (-110 000)
Death Knight: -1.7% (-187 000)
Priest: -1.3% (-143 000)
Mage: -0.5% (-55 000)
Rogue: -1.6% (-176 000)
Warlock: -1,4% (-154 000)
Shaman: -0.3% (-33 000)
Monk: -0.5% (-55 000)
Demon Hunter: +11.6% (+1 276 000)

Total, WoD-classes: -11.6% (-1 276 000)

What does that last part mean?
Well, WoD classes in Legion saw a total of 1 276 000 fewer max level characters compared to the same period in Warlords of Draenor.
Demon Hunters at the time of the caption in Legion, held a total of 1 276 000 max level characters.

Does this mean that the reason the other classes saw fewer characters at max level, that this was the result of how all those had moved to the Demon Hunter class?

No. Not at all.
Max level characters does not equal the amount of active players/subs in the game. Some had probably rerolled to play only Demon Hunter. But we have no indication of exactly how many there were that did this. Some probably played multiple max level characters, incl. Demon Hunters.

In short, you can’t point to Global Statistics when discussing how many players(subs) a particular class has lost. You can however deduce that, as an example, fewer players were interested in playing a Hunter at max level in Legion, compared to the same period in WoD.

We can see that several classes, incl. Warrior, DK, Priest, Rogue, and Warlock were played less at max level as well. Although, none of which come even close to that of the Hunter class.
This tells us that the Hunter class was an outlier for this period.

Was there only 1 reason for why this was the case? Nope.
But considering the Hunter class was the one to be changed the most, is it wrong to take the removal of RSV in favor of the addition of MSV as a big factor for this result? Again, nope.

Note that the 11 million value, is only used to add a perspective to the percentage here. We have no actual clue of the exact number at the time in Legion.

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61

It appears the angry gnome has ceased.

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