The glaives are way too squishy if you have 2~3 Bdruid/rogues or Fmage
Lose 1 of them already put you in disadvantage and lose 2 is a straight out lose
Of course no one knows the effect of these changes yet - since bgs almost never pop in a PTR setting - but at first glance these changes appear to make defense even more OP 
The new meta for defense might just be as follows - all speculation of course, I’m just going off this blue post:
- just stay inside the castle for as long as possible, while picking off offense stragglers/collecting HKs from the safety of the ledges - offense having catas isn’t much of a threat to the walls anyways
- when enough people have rank for demos/sieges, send those people out the back while offense is distracted in the front
- this small strike team can loop around to the south and take out the 3 towers (-24 minutes) while most of the offense team is still throwing themselves at the wall/wasting their time w/ their underpowered catas
With defense turtling/stalling for a long enough time, plus getting the 3 towers down, offense should only have like 5-8 minutes left to push thru - which probably isn’t enough time in the context of pug players.
Calling it now: defense will still be OP, and casuals will utilize new/cheesy strats to ensure defense continues to be an “easy win”. Offense will continue to be an uphill battle… especially if the demo/siege cannons bug remains unfixed.
1 Like
Theoretically, that is a viable strategy RIGHT NOW if everyone follows it.
(Problem is, it’s boring to do nothing for 45 minutes, so fights happen. And not everyone has access to a premade to withstand the boredom.)
You see, unlike whatever “premades” you may be apart of, PUGs on their own are “incapable” of developing ANY sort of strategy outside of just “zerging mindlessly,” right? (Isn’t that what you said?)
You really need to think about how the “common folk” operate, not just rely on whatever experiences you perceived, since they weren’t what “real” people do.
You said it yourself 
Idk, that seems WAAAAY too complicated for a NON-PREMADE to perform.
Not everyone has access to a premade, you know. You need to think about the rest of us.
/s
Ashran already is a laggy mess that is unplayable and you add more players?
1 Like
Please just remove Wintergrasp it is terrible. You do not need to put lipstick on that pig.
2 Likes
Every Epic BG has a Horde advantage. It took people complaining about AV who played both sides, who found out Horde got to mount inside the gate, so they had an advantage. If they pop Hangar (which is usually the case), they win. Horde Mage still has a blowback that kills people off the tower, where 2 Rogues can kill our mage no issue. Worse, now, that the mass Poly has been removed (lol really Blizzard). If they want to fix Ashran, implement a timer. Put in a queue that gives both sides equal Healers. Getting into a Trashran when the other side has 4+ healers and you have none, it’s not fun. Nothing like wasting over an hour in your 15th+ queue of that dumpster fire (because no more Blacklisting, right), just to walk out with less honor than you get per week farming 50 Fragments and turning it in.
1 Like
Incorrect IOC and wintergrasp do not have a horde advantage at all
3 Likes
I will die on a hill that horde have an AV and current ashran advantage, but you are right in IOC and WG dont. The alliance can just as easily take hanger if they want. Old habits die hard I guess
1 Like
The advantage given to Horde in WG is the frequency in which you enter as Defense. It seems to have been dialed back just a bit from the near 100% rate you enjoyed at the start of the expansion, but it’s still strongly in Horde’s favor.
IoC is the only epic BG without glaring designs to favor Horde. It’s ridiculous how many changes are having to be made to try even things out and they’re STILL not enough.
This is a double-edged sword though. The one good thing Mass Poly gave us was time to respond, even if it meant having to fight you at full-health when we got there.
Until Jeron’s knockback is removed or Rylai is given a Mass Teleport that ports Horde into the air over random spots within a 200 yrd radius from the tower, this map will continue to strongly favor Horde.
2 Likes
you have to be joking horde dont always get defense i can’t even remember the last time even i got it on defense i dont think even think i have gotten it once on defense this expansion lol. with that logic you could say the samething for alliance
1 Like
If it’s true that they are leaving in the knockback (the blue post is vague/doesn’t say), it’s probably because they think it’s just a learn-2-play issue.
The complaints are certainly there, so I had assumed they were changing it. Personally I haven’t gotten knocked off in like 2 years now. I still see lots of dumb dumbs getting knocked off, however.
You would think people would learn after a while, but I guess not.
Speaking of NPCs; if I’m doing a dungeon and fail at a boss/my key gets depleted, I usually read up on it’s abilities for the next time I’m in there (common sense). I don’t continue wiping over and over to the same mechanic for no apparent reason 
Not that old chestnut of “just google it” again 
The stronger likelihood is that it has just not been mentioned or it is an oversight that it has been left in, just like it would be an oversight to leave Rylai’s Ice Shard in its current iteration (a +25% frost damage taken debuff won’t work on %health abilities).
It is a huge imbalance that needs to be addressed, and saying “they probably think it’s a learn to play issue” just reeks of “let me keep my free wins”. One faction shouldn’t have to research boss-level abilities in a casual environment while the other gets smash their heads on their keyboards.
1 Like
Well yeah, when I don’t understand something, I look it up… that’s the common sense thing to do 
Speaking of Ashran, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you even once in an Ashran game. Or you must play at some extremely unusual times (2 AM? 3 AM? 4 AM?). I assume your Disc Priest is still your main, since none of your other toons have any gear.
BTW looks like we get the alliance recall toy for AV if we already have the horde one . Wonder when they added that , it will make mercing in AV much bettter .
I’ve already told you every other time you use that as a ‘invalidate your posts’ tactic that I’m in the UK.
I’ve also found myself queuing less and less for epic battlegrounds because I don’t find any of them fun right now. I’m still advocating for changes as I want to play them - large scale PvP with strategy is my favourite thing to do - I just don’t like them as they are.
Hasn’t this always been the case, Dosao? I think it’s when you go to use it, it just doesn’t function?
1 Like
If it was in my collection, I haven’t noticed it before . Anyway I will try it out soon and report.
It’s not vague. Mass Poly was clearly listed as being removed. Jeron’s knockback was clearly not listed as being removed.
It’s not just a learn-to-play issue when a single Paladin with Blinding Light or Mage with Dragon’s Breath can prevent enough players on the tower from being able to LoS the knockback to effectively wipe the attempt.
That being said, I would be perfectly fine with it being a learn-to-play issue if that same issue was present for the Horde. That’s why I suggested to either remove Jeron’s knockback or give Rylai a Mass Teleport that poses an equal threat.
Why should one team have to concern themselves with the high stakes risk/reward of the attempt while the other team can just send 2 or 3 to get the job done as though it’s some side task that just so happens to be worth 50 resources?
And this is the issue. Horde are continuously given these advantages when they’re already at an advantage due to being the massively more populated faction. It’s disgusting that the devs show such blatant favoritism time and again, only making changes months and even years after the fact if enough noise is finally made.
1 Like
Great… now alliance have a 100% loss chance in wintergrasp. At least there was a 50 % chance you’d get defence and then another small chance of winning.
Now it’s straight up loss guaranteed.
these should allow for more back and forth team fights, 40v40 matches at hangar have been more intense than ashran lately.
combined with
should mean we have more back and forth pushes. atm when one team pushes to F5 and kills the mage, the other team basically gives up because they wont have the resources to make a recovery, that should be fixed. a dominant team will wipe the other team dropping resources to 140, then a mage kill would drop it to 110. still a range that teams can come back from.
the issue before was that elementals were basically summoned again as soon as they die. 3k make it so they were never summoned unless you had a premade.
although, i am a bit salty that these guys are coming back after the devs took miasma away from outbreak for unholy. the elemental was one of the ways to use that spell properly: taunt elemental and reset him, on the way back hit outbreak on him, and miasma would dot up the whole enemy team while the elemental walked back through them.
she doesn’t cast polymorph enough currently for this to really be a concern. i think i have been poly’ed only once or twice in 500 games.
thats fine, but the real issue is the knockback, it needs to be removed. perhaps turn it into a interrupt or stagger, but atm all i have to do to save jeron is waltz up the tower, plant a banner, hit AMZ and wait for the knockback. i can and have done it solo.
the strength of hangarD is that the airship can’t be stopped. increasing the glaive thrower and demo HP does make it harder to kill them, but that is an ever chasing target. you buff their HP, and then players get more gear and do more damage. atm on D you do kamikazi runs to stop glaives, you take a glider from a cannon tower and then blow all your cds, defensive and offensive to do as much damage to the glaives as you can before you die.
the HP increases will help only temporarily i think. what we need is a way to shoot down the airship. perhaps the tower cannons can be modified to also shoot up and have an anti-aircraft shot as a button #3. the airship could then be given a respawn timer like the siege engine.
cata’s in IoC are mostly a non-issue. for this buff to have meaning they would need the flamethrower from the WG version or running bombs would need to be viable.
a minor difference in keep designs, but a demo can shoot the floor of the horde boss room from the main entry gate and kill any enemy players in that room.
this is good however the defending team arrives first to SR and keep cannons can reach SR, i’ve never looked, but is SR physically closer to the keep than BT?
tbh, i think a lot of the issue with attack always losing is the timer. if the current meta plays out with 9 less minutes in the game then Atk has no chance of winning after the 3rd tower is destroyed.
while i don’t disagree with that idea(destroy 3 towers vs destroy 3 walls) the timer should be replaced with a resource system, where each tower/wall is worth 100 pts. with a timer still in play, you are stuck in the position of defense winning by default by just running out the timer. so it doesn’t give attack a lot of time to play an attrition game of defending a tower and attacking a wall. the timer sort of forces you to put all your eggs in one basket.
this is definitely a good chance, however im wondering if this will result in teams straight up avoiding each other for the first 5 minutes of the game. avoid the other team so they dont rank early, then get as many catas as you can for the initial confrontation in order to get demos and sieges.