Unsatisfied with Mistweaver in TWW

let me preface by saying that i’m far from any kind of authority, and anything stated hereafter is simply how i feel about the spec and its mechanics at the moment.

i’ve mained mistweaver since mid to late MoP, but given the state of several of the past expansions i’ve been very inconsistent in playtime. i’ve stuck with the spec regardless every time i come back, and it’s always been my go-to choice for everything when i decide to put any amount of time into the game. usually, this is a safe choice, because it’s rare that i’m unsatisfied with the state of the spec. yes, even when essence font and rjw were 80% of my healing, i was satisfied with the state of the spec, because it felt fun to play.

currently, it does not feel fun to play.

i can think of a lot of reasons for this, so let me organize it as best i can for a first and final draft.
the first issue i have is that the class tree and the spec tree feel unbalanced in terms of freedom of choice. the class tree options have the most important things in the upper areas (cleanse, interrupt, soothing mist to name a few), the sort of important things in the middle areas (utility like ring of peace/transcendence, defensives, generally useful passives), and the least important but still interesting things closer to the bottom (every single item in the last row is purely optional from what i can tell? none of them seem potent enough that they’re required). i like this design, because it gives me the feeling that i’m choosing how my character is built early on, and choosing additional things to augment or enhance that playstyle as i go down, ending on a row of flavorful choices that i can easily ignore or take depending on my preference.

in stark contrast to this, the mistweaver tree has the important things at the top (as it should), but then the middle is a bunch of random passives that enhance things that you aren’t even sure of the relevance to your build yet. then, at the bottom, you choose what playstyle you want. this feels bad because i feel obligated to choose specific options at the bottom of the tree, because my build is reliant on them. these kinds of things should be nearer to the top or middle, and the passives that modify them nearer to the bottom. it feels non-linear when creating custom builds and doesn’t make sense.

additionally, i feel that there’s a severe lack of options for builds. i see the jadefire stomp build, i see the rising mist build, i see the soothing mist build. sheilun’s isn’t really a build because it’s hard time-based… yet it’s on the same rows as those build’s key ingredients. this doesn’t feel good. if i’m healing a dungeon, i feel obligated to talent into sheilun’s and its additional items because the spec simply feels like it’s missing a button without them. then i have to talent into my actual build where my throughput is coming from. that leaves me with maybe 2-3 talent points that i can actually use for the interesting stuff near the bottom of the tree (secret infusion, resplendent mist, invoker’s delight, etc). but the first 2 there are 2-point nodes…

moving on slightly, the playstyle of the builds in question i feel are not… well, fun. jadefire stomp build is probably the most fun of the ones i’ve tried, but what i enjoy about it is the damage → healing schtick. i very much dislike having to stand inside the stomp to get the full benefits, and that a weakaura might as well be required to track ancient teachings since stomp resets so frequently that you can’t actually tell when ancient teachings is active sometimes. i dislike that there’s a weird amount of upkeep and management in the build that doesn’t feel like it fits the very simple concept of “hit things to heal your allies.” i do understand that it can only really exist in this way because if there wasn’t a margin for user error and it had competitive throughput, it would simply be brought everywhere purely to remove the human element, but it doesn’t feel good to play for those reasons regardless.

soothing mist build has the opposite problem – i don’t think it’s meant to be as easy to use as it is, and there’s almost no element of decisionmaking when using it. prior, when precasting essence font and hardcasting vivify were relevant, it felt like there was an element of preparation and often times triage that made it interesting. that is, if there was unexpected damage, i had the tools to react to it no matter what, as long as i was creative enough with my options. currently, i’m just kind of sitting there channeling soothing mist, and if someone gets low i just hit them with one of two spells and continue channeling soothing mist. mana tea is a major contributor to this issue, in that i don’t feel like my mana pool is being strained, so i’m free to just sit around casting whatever and it’ll just work. i know this is an odd thing to say on the heels of “this is too much to keep up with” in the last build, but i feel that this is too little to keep up with.

with those issues combined, it feels that my options are either [high octane] or relatively meaningless and i haven’t really noticed any flexibility between those two extremes.

unlike before, i don’t feel that i can modify my talents and gameplay in a way that allows me to play effectively with a build that i want. it feels like i’m shoehorned into fully committing to one or two builds, and there is very little flexibility in changing them.

i don’t know if anyone else shares my exact perspective, but i hope i’m not the only person who’s unsatisfied with how mistweaver currently feels to build and play, because i would really like it to change.

thank you for reading. apologies for the wall of vaguely organized text, i just wanted to get this off my chest.

2 Likes

ngl i think MW feels GREAT. I got rid of the double jump talent and replaced it with soothing mist

5 Likes

I’ve played mw since wod and truth be told I’ve always felt that at least since bfa we’ve had the choice between fistweaving or casting. So I don’t really feel like that’s changed all too much. In keys I feel very strong with multiple throughput cds to help me, and in raid I have a fun tool to help with my ramp in yu lon. This is honestly the most fun I’ve had with mw, my only gripe is that master of harmony isn’t great. But conduit is so flavorful and strong it’s ok.

4 Likes

I feel you on the mana thing. I’ve been steadily trying to spend more mana and it’s…oddly difficult? And even when I do, mana tea brings me right back up.

I’d much rather the jade stomp ground effect give more durability or something (we currently just get 5% stam while the ancient teachings buff is up, unrelated). Having to stand in it, especially when the ground effect ‘bloom’ where it figures out how it spreads, can be a bit wonky sometimes depending on position and just…randomness. There’s a ton more things to dodge in melee and it’s a pain to move around all that while maintaining benefit from our capstones and near-capstones. It has the same problems as Death and Decay for DKs - it’s just really unfun to manage and doesn’t really feel strong enough to justify the limitations, though I do enjoy the playstyle. And there’s usually enough space to get along well enough, but it’s unpleasant to deal with.

The SooM build also really just feels like I’m twiddling my thumbs between ramps. Sure, I can cast stuff, but the ramps are really what’s important and outside of it…eh? It is super safe, though, and I tend to run it more often when I’m not sure the group is good enough to let me fistweave comfortably.

Ultimately for the mana thing, I think it’s a blizzard problem that they need to fix with healers. Mana feels like it’s in a weird spot and not actually relevant most of the time. I hear we’re also losing the blackout kick → rising sun kick reset thing, too, which is…just why? Ew. Some more fleshing out of how fistweaving deals damage would be nice, too -= it’s still very basic for something that’s the ‘core’ of the spec. That’s just me tho, and I know button space is not infinite.

Also unrelated but I figure why not - the existence of Jade Walk is just insulting at this point. 15% movement speed out of combat? Really?

2 Likes

I’ve been levelling a monk lately and MW definitely feels fun.

I do hate that you need to stand in the jadefire stomp effect for the benefit, I think all mechanics like that suck. There’s so much crap on the ground half the time that it just makes things annoying. Just make it so using jadefire stomp gives you the full benefit no matter where you stand.

As for mana, personally I think it’s a great thing if you never have to worry about it. Having to work around mana limitations sucks in my opinion.

Also I don’t see the point in skipping out on soothing mist even if you’re focused on fistweaving. Sure fistweaving might be your priority but it’s still nice to have soothing mist so if you need to you can channel it and dump some big heals onto a target quickly.

I am a huge fan of Mistweaver in theory, but one thing super annoys me: I can’t stand how renewing mist interrupts soothing mist. [obviously this is talking about soothing mist builds]. Vivify and Enveloping mist don’t cancel it and neither does thunder focus tea, but renewing mist, something you have to cast constantly as MW since 90% of mistweaver is putting lots of renewing mists out there, clunkily stops soothing mist, and then you have to restart casting it with another key press.

It just makes it so annoying. I am not saying every spell should be castable during soothing mist, but something as CONSTANTLY used as renewing mist should be. It just makes the class clunky when it doesn’t and adds unnecessary key presses that really ruin the fun to me.

9 Likes

I’ve been mostly unsatisfied with monk after they gutted the class after MoP. MoP was the best iteration of mistweaver since its inception and TWW is the closest it’s felt for me.

3 Likes

I’m pretty new to MW but have been playing MMORPGs since Everquest on Playstation. My MW Monk in TWW is the most fun I’ve had playing a class in not only WoW, but any MMO in well over a decade. No class is perfect, and I’m admittedly a casual player, but still, I love it.

3 Likes

Personally I’m still reeling from the removal of Essence Font + Upwelling. It was such a fun combo last expansion (and despite it not being the “meta” build, I did GREAT with it. Take that MW theorycrafters!)

3 Likes

11.0.5 isn’t doing mistweaver any major favors that I can tell. We’re losing ancient concordance and the extra RSK resets. Gaining probably a little bit of HPS from other fistweaving abilities. The aura boost to healing is nice. But it’s not really addressing major issues like lack of group utility that is holding the class to the ground. Mystic touch needs to become a verse buff, or something as useful as the shaman’s raid buff. Shamans have a full healer kit and arguably as strong as if not better healing cds plus the better raid buff.

If we’re not going to get a combat res, make our dispel do curses too. Throw us a small bone.

Jadefire stomp is probably one of my least favorite abilities in the game because of the cooldown. Floor tethers or things that make you want to stay in one singular area are terrible for gameplay in a game that has you running laps to avoid mechanics now. It’s the same reason consecration on paladin was so bad when walking out of it meant falling over as tank. It’s the same reason I think death and decay should be an aura too. I want less floor tethers/ground targets.

1 Like

What are you talking about, we are not losing ancient concordance. It is being baked into the kit as a passive. I mean the PTR is literally up, why are you spewing bs? They’re literally giving us 1 extra talent point to play around with. On top of that, the RSK reset bonus doesn’t require you to be in jadefire stomp any longer, meaning if you are screwed by jadefire resets, you can still get your RSK resets. And jade empowerment is giving us some much needed burst damage,with even more damage potential from Rushing Wind Kick if you want some aoe damage.

1 Like

You know, you could have just read the notes too. Regardless, ancient TEACHINGS is becoming baseline, but ancient concordance is removed in the notes. The very last 3 lines of the patch notes say it’s being removed. There is nothing mentioning it becoming baseline nor the 10% extra reset chance being baked in elsewhere, but I admit I have not downloaded the PTR and looked to see if it was baked in elsewhere myself.

edit: and just for the record, it is the 2 additional targets on blackout kick that’s being baked into Awakened Jadefire now, but not the reset chance. So we’re still missing that 10%. Still not baseline as Awakened Jadefire is a talent. So yes, I am partially wrong in that part of ancient concordance’s functionality is being added elsewhere.

1 Like

Having renewing mist cancel soothing mist IRKS MY SOUL. Would be a huge QOL change to change this.

2 Likes

It’s kind of funny, I hate healing, I’ve never played a healing class in endgame content and I started MW yesterday to help my wife learn how to tank so she can trust her healer and ironically it’s the most fun I’ve had not only with healing but playing the game in general.

It’s like I can be a semi decent DPS and support the team, I tried discipline priest but I had a much bigger issue with AoE healing and monitoring atonement so I wasn’t into it.

My only issue with MW is I sometimes feel like I completely go braindead when someone screws up a mechanic or stands in bad and I can’t bring them back from the edge fast enough.

But if everyone is playing well, then I can top people off and focus one person as needed between fistweaving.

It’s probably the only way I’ll ever be a healer lol.

1 Like

I left in WOD and returned two months ago. It is what it is, is all I can say about that…
Where is the chi? WTB uplift! Zenpulse isn’t it… why is it such a big pick’n’choose between mist/fist weaving and why did we make jade statue basically worthless?

2 Likes