Realistically, those numbers are not far from where they need to be in order for that to be true.
All of the DPS are capable of dealing well over the DPS requirements of the fights. A 10-20% DPS advantage in one slot is pretty minor (and that’s assuming you are giving up a top DPS class to pull in a bottom), and most guilds aren’t parsing all 90+ where you even can directly say that replacing someone would yield better DPS.
Once you yourself are playing well, it becomes pretty tough to replace you. You aren’t going to be getting a DPS boost out of most warlocks if you are trying to replace a 96 parsing fury warrior.
The theoretical DPS advantage is really only applicable to the top end guilds. And you don’t want to over-stack one class anyway right now just due to gear competition. You need to be running splits to gear a lot of the same class, which most guilds also aren’t doing.
Even if you got all of the specs to about the same DPS, people are going to find other reasons to stack classes.
“Oh look, locks can DPS yogg phase 3 without looking at him”
“Warrior cleave is great on X tough fight!”
Etc. Etc.
When looking at meta comps, there’s always going to be a level of “why even bring X?!” Even if the real differences are incredibly minor in practice.
And they currently are very minor. We are talking single digits of seconds on your kills.
Firstly, it’s not like Blizzard committed to never reassessing their position. Nor is it like they’ve never back flipped on anything.
Additionally, their comments on Warriors scaling better in Wrath than previous expansions is mathematically provably untrue, and shows an extreme lack of understanding about their own game.
I don’t really rate Blizzards efforts as Devs in Classic and I don’t really trust what they say.
I’m taking a wait and see approach on whether Fury should receive a power buff or not but Blizzards comments on where they think the meta will head is worthless to me. I don’t think they have much of a clue.
Well you clearly can’t remember correctly or you’d remember my basic explanation as to why that is.
It’s literally just for commanding shout as the tanks will wear threat gear (less mitigation/stamina) and thus the shout bolsters their health back up.
Insisting warriors are fine because one is taken at a net dps loss for a 2255 health buff across the raid really isn’t convincing me we’re in a fine position.
Show me any speedruns with more than one warrior. They don’t take a second one because it’d be at a detriment to the raid to do so.
I never said that, you can quote me if you’d like.
I never commented at all on the state of balance in WoTLK before rets were buffed.
My argument for ret not being buffed is they already have two S tier specs, which is more than any other class across two roles.
But for some reason (still not explained to me) paladins are justified in expecting a PvE dps spec. I don’t see why it couldn’t just be their PvP spec and they could be happy with the best tank and healer for all of WoTLK. Not to mention ICC scaling on ret.
If I say “arms deserves more dps to compete with the pack of players” people think it’s justified to say “Well fury is your PvE spec”. Somehow this logic doesn’t follow for paladins if you were to say “Prot and holy are your PvE specs”.
In short: Paladins were already overpowered as a class even before they were buffed.
I honestly wouldn’t care and given how many people PvP I doubt most would care.
That’s really a small problem to have that your third spec is lowly when you have to S tier specs to choose from. I’d take arms being dogturd dps if it meant Fury and Prot were S tier. Oh wait, arms is already dogturd tier, weird how we don’t have two S tier specs. Hell I think most warriors would accept two of their specs being awful if it meant just one was S tier.
You’re the most overpowered class by far, and that was the case even before ret buffs.
Great so we’re in agreement. Blizzard didn’t buff ret because of balance, they buffed them to appease their highest proportion class population into playing the game more.
It’s a business decision and doesn’t have anything to do with the fidelity of gameplay. That should be concerning to everyone.
Rets have made a convenient inroad in this discussion that every class must have a viable PvE dps spec, and the argument must be focused solely around ret. Nevermind that dual spec exists and ret pallies are in majority harbouring the benefits of their overpowered other specs.
I accept neither. I don’t care that your spec tanked, warrior tanked before WoTLK even began when death knight cannibalized it. You think it’s just a coincidence we’re the lowest proportion class?
Well you haven’t demonstrated it’s a fallacy, so try again.
Dual spec exists last I checked.
Every class has 1-2 useless specs for PvE, paladins for some reason because they’re highly hybridized get to insist all of theirs be viable. It’s nonsense.
No they aren’t. Now you’re just deliberately lying.
I don’t care that you want your roles to be viable. You have two S tier specs, that is more than any other class gets. You also get it across two roles which is more than any other class gets.
It’s amazing rets have pushed this narrative for so long and it was hardly questioned. Why on Earth couldn’t paladins be happy with two S tier specs in PvE. For the entirety of WoTLK?
I’ll take two S tier specs across two roles if they’re so unhappy about it. Make arms into a healing spec so we have a dead role, I won’t complain.
I know, and I’m calling you out for being a goon for this.
Because some of us don’t enjoy holy or prot but do enjoy ret. There’s tons of warriors who love fury but wouldn’t pay prot if you paid them to do so, but this is ok?
Then reroll paladin and quit crying about paladins.
You picked both warrior and hunter undesirable specs and compared them. Not sure what you’re hoping to achieve with that. Maybe throw frost mage and sub rogue in there to so you can show even more meaningless stats.
Well demonstrate me a goon then we’ll talk. But dual spec exists so the entire class should be looked at when referring to buffs. Given a paladin can take two specs in any composition. To buff an overpowered class is ridiculous and so are the people defending it.
So what? Lots of players enjoy specs they can’t play. I’m sure many hunters enjoyed BM in TBC but now they can’t play it. That’s hardly an argument for buffs and your personal emotional perspective shouldn’t factor.
Aaaand there it is. “Just reroll paladin”, nah I’d rather point out how illogical paladins are in their defence of this crap. Even if I rerolled paladin it wouldn’t fix the obvious issue with Blizzard buffing paladins.
Rets should have never been buffed and paladins should have been relegated to “The extremely strong non-dps class”.
Why? They aren’t taken to raids (even if sub at least is fully viable to do so). I linked the dps representation in my post, you’re free to check it out if you want to.
My dude, you’re telling every ret to respec holy or prot, but when the tables turn you go “NUH UH PROPAGANDA”.