Sounds good, do it
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OHHHHHHH I love this⌠Hmmm with the unification of the elves and well⌠Azhara believing herself to this days she being the rightful queen THIS HAS POTENTIAL!!!
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I could see it.
The Elves reunite, a projection of Azshara suddenly appears, and offers them all the chance to kneel before their rightful Queen. They of course refuse and display their defiance by deciding their first step as a union is to finally put an end to her.
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I really wish the playerbases solution to everything wasnât killing living parts of world history. The inflection of Noblesse Oblige, something so radically missing from just about any form of monarchy in WoW, would be a story element that would lead to Azshara cementing a genuine right to rule; and maybe not a redemption so much as a realization that she has responsibilities to fulfill if she desires what she seeks.
Please Iâm so tired of turning established characters into raid tiers, lets just have a proper baddy character that is essential.
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The problem with this, is that we donât have any reason to trust Azshara. Furthermore the other characters are completely and utterly right to suspect any appearance of a genuine desire to help is false, with the intention of luring the desperate or those who seek power among the peoples to her banner.
Furthermore there is the fact that she tried to kill Lorâthemar and he was prepared to kill her after we defeated her⌠And now that I think about it, weâve never really had two characters on the same side have that kind of conversation. For example itâs reasonable to assume that the Horde has veterans from both the Old Horde, via the orcs, and the Alliance, via the Forsaken, and weâve never had an orc and Forsaken actually comment on that⌠âHey, you tried to kill me when Doomhammer was defeated,â or âYou killed me when Durnholde fell.â
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That was an awesome character that gets horrifically slept on mainly because people despise going to Vashâjir
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Pretty sure Anduin embodies the concept of Noblesse Oblige. Azshara is and always has been the embodiment of a selfish ruler that has never shown the capacity to feel any obligation or responsibility toward the well-being of those under her. Everyone serving her is a tool to be maintained just like any important tool, unless the need to sacrifice said tools arise. Moreover, even if Azshara does manage to overcome her sense of entitlement and selfishness enough to start acting nobler and more caring due to some realization she has to in order to keep her throne, that wonât cement a genuine right to rule anyone other than the Naga, which would only make it harder to make them playable since there is no compelling way to make the Horde or Alliance accept her loyalists amongst their ranks unless they are pretending to hate Azshara, which isnât a sustainable in the story.
Even if you create some contrived dynamic where the Horde and Alliance need her help, that can not last forever. Eventually whatever they need her help for will be dealt with, and the calls for justice for her past actions will be all thatâs left. At that point the only thing saving her would be the loyalist Naga, and even if they are pretending to hate her, theyâll eventually be discovered trying to help her. Which would mean we couldnât have playable Naga any longer.
Neither red, blue, nor the players would accept Azshara or her loyalists surviving indefinitely on their side after what she has done. We would need a third faction. Which we will never get, no matter how badly I want it.
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Anything in particular you find awesome about her?
We got to see her rise in power and swim a few miles in her âbootsâ. Hell sheâs probably the naga character we know best outside of Vashj and Azshara.
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Just witnessed FFXIV modders make a fully animated lamia/naga tail. Modder is working on making it dynamically move with player directional input as well as giving it mounted animations.
Its so ogre.
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Ok now just have Blizzard learn how to apply those animations to WoWâŚ
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Thing is, maybe in WoW lore you feel like most leaders are better than her on that part, but in real History, most of them are like her, thats why she is imo the most relatable leader because she is lot closer to reality.
The thing is, leaders such as Anduin in real History are pretty rares, and in most cases they weak and do nothing because they are too kind to actually do stuff and get their hands dirty. Being a leader is having your hands dirty and doing what it takes to get your goals done, if you always try to please and make compromise you dont do anything in the end, not to forget others can betray you at the frist mistakesâŚyes even your own people.
I dont see were in canon it is said she is a demi-goddess only, Nagas have a cult about her, and worship her, she is a deity to them.
If you find me the part when they say she is a demi-godess TO THE NAGA then ok, but it dosent change the fact 99% of the naga lore and socity revolve around her.
Like any nagas you fight they all say âFor the Queenâ or something as such.
As for the âthey are wicked creaturesâ i am really confused about that, they are not evil in nature imo, they are like any other living beings, can be good or bad.
It feels like you dont get my point, but i will give you a better example, saying you want to play a naga but not be under Azshara, is like saying you want to play a vampire wihtout thirst for blood. And the fact you even say nagas are evil in nature is really confusing like âi want to play an evil race but i want them not to be under the evil leader that definish them.â
They tried to do this with the Ebon Blade in woltk, like âho they are not with the LKâ then in Legion âOk they are with the LK afterallâ well yeah because making them not being with the LK was lame and removed a big part of their identity.
The adjective âAzsharanâ which is a canon one is literally used to definish their codes and culture. You can find these in Nazjatar.
You will need a source for this, because i dont recall such statement in chronnicles, not to forget, chronnicles dont go to BFA and there was others nagas after Vashj.
To me you have the Queenâs Court that can top even Vashj as dungeon journal even state them as the most powerful of her servents : " For ten thousand years, the [Queenâs Court has never failed to enforce the word of Azshara. Now, the queenâs most powerful servants stand ready to fulfill her final decree."
And their are : Silivaz the Zealous and Pashmar the Fanatical the word Fanatical is literally her title here. So yeah, Vashhj being the most fanatical is debtable especially when she went to serve Illidan at some point.
I know who is that dev who said that, and knowing who he is, its not really a good example, and also, to me, these 2 tribes felt like âhow about we do complete non sense with the nagas?â Because nagas that join the Legion made little sense really.
As for Skarâthiss i really will need you tell me what is that group of naga that he lead becauseâŚhe lead none, like really, the only nagas you have in Midsummer are not even with him but with Twilight Hammer, they are the Wrathtail nagas tribe that serve Azshara, yes, their leader is known its Ruuzel and she says âOur great queen beckons us forward. Let us turn the waters red with the blood of our enemies!â
So yeah, your Skarâthiss guy is just one guyâŚ
So what you want is, if i understand right : Play a break away group from Azshara that would joins the factions because Azshara is evil, but they are wicked in nature so they still evil, so factions accept them because?
Its where i dont get you, you want to play evils nagas but your arguement to say they wont be with Azshara is because Azshara is evil.
Because they are desperate and will get their a wooped by the Void if they dont.
Thats just how i see it.
No. I think most leaders even IRL are not like her. Some are like her, yes, but they generally fail.
Also, being closer to reality =/= relatable.
Leaders often have some degree of self-interest, yes. But not to the degree of Azshara. False comparison.
Which is why a playable traitor group would make sense.
Itâs in her entry in the WC encyclopedia. Itâs explicitly stated she is worshipped as a demigod. Later, during Cataclysm, on the Blizz website on the âFaces of Cataclysmâ she was described not as worshipped, but as being âreveredâ as a demigod.
Chronicles states their transformation affected both their bodies and minds. Their hearts are dark, and minds enveloped with hate because of their transformation. Also, their addiction to magic is inevitably going to impact their behavior similarly to how it did the Blood Elves and Nightborne.
The most noble-hearted Naga will still be very flawed individuals.
Nope, I got your point, and think the example you gave was perfectly accurate. It just so happens you didnât realize that the very accurate example you gave invalidates your own position.
Nope. Not a better example. False comparison. Naga would still physically be Naga without following Azshara. Vampires can not physically be vampires without thirst for blood, unless you use vampire in a figurative sense. You canât use âNagaâ figuratively like you can âvampire,â so it is not an apt comparison.
Again, I understand your point, I simply donât agree.
They can have the same arguably evil motivations, and tendencies without Azshara. There is much more to acting like Naga than praising Azshara. Your obsession with her will never change that.
Again, false comparison outside of your own opinion. The Lich King is not single individual, Azshara is. The Naga can be loyal to a supreme leader without Azshara. A lot of people were and are fine being Death Knights not loyal to the Lich King anyway. Your idea that Naga have to be loyal to Azshara specifically to still be Naga is your own.
Britain, whether Edwardian, Victorian or Elizebethan, is still Britain. British cultire is still British, no matter the ruler. The fact those terms are used while those rulers reign does not make the ruler integral to the people or more intrinsic nature of the culture of said people.
Give me an example of a âcodeâ that is intrinsically Azsharan. Show me where their culture in general is described as Azsharan.
She was Azsharaâs foremost handmaiden. Her most devoted of the devoted. I was wrong, itâs not in Chronicles. Itâs in the encyclopedia.
Ofc thereâs other Naga after Vashj, but that doesnât mean they were as loyal or devoted as Vashj.
I donât see proof that they top Vashj seeing as Vashj is dead by the time of this dungeon journal. Also, being the most powerful does not mean they were her most fanatical or devoted.
Itâs really not. Also⌠seriously? She went to serve Illidan because Azshara ordered it. Azshara would only send someone most loyal to her to serve Illidan while remaining truly loyal to Azshara.
And who is that? The credit was never given to a single dev on that comment at the QnA.
In your opinion.
False. We see multiple Naga working under Skarâthis, all labeled âHereticâ independent of, albeit working with the Twilightâs Hammer. An emissary and her body guards, as well as Crystal Guards elsewhere. Skarâthis is the highest ranking known member of this heretical cult.
Because Azshara has done things that rebel naga havenât done to make red and blue recoil at the thought of letting her loyalists into their cities and the chance to learn their secrets. Rebels wouldnât be quite as bad as Azsharaâs loyalists, with intentions and circumstances that make them willing to align with the factions. The factions also wouldnât be aware that the playable Naga faction is still up to shady stuff. It would be similar to how the Horde accepted the Forsaken.
Thereâs having an evil nature due to some deeper cause, then thereâs evil with a history of being brazenly hostile and trying to destroy or conquer the world repeatedly, giving absolutely no reason to be trusted or worked with at all.
Though of an idea for playable Naga.
Azshara and let have taken to captured the Elven races in order to turn them into new Naga. However they are able to liberate themselves and end up returning to the factions. For example turned Night elves go to the Alliance, while turned Blood Elves return to the Horde.
That way we have a nice way to explain why they are suddenly Naga who are against Azshara and why the Horde and Alliance would be willing to work with them.
Ok but⌠that at most only justifies us not attacking or being attacked on sight. Doesnât really explain us letting loyalists into our cities and stuff. Once the void is subdued whatâs keeping H and A from going all out hostile towards Azshara and her loyalists again? I donât get how it can work unless Azshara literally sacrifices herself against the Void, heroically saving the day in the process, earning forgiveness for her subjects. I donât think either of us want that. So I can not see any way your idea could work.
Yeah⌠Iâve been waiting for so long⌠I want to make a shaman and a warriorâŚ
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Wouldnât it just be easier to have Azhara and her forces come in at the last minute and turn the tide of battle and help in defeating Iridikron or something.
She has always looked out for herself and if she learned that the Old Gods were not the best side to be on it is very believable that she would turn on them. Helping to save the World Soul would do a lot to bringing peace between Naga and the other races
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One thing I didnât think of while making this thread, that I donât see any of the playable race discussion threads discussing that I think might be worth discussing is music. Music has been huge in Warcraft since wc3, and is really important for a raceâs depiction.
What sort of music does everyone think should go with playable Naga? Their starting zone, their outposts⌠that kind of thing?
I obviously have my ideas, but I would like to hear what otherâs think.
At first, on reading this, I couldnât help think this would make the Naga too similar to worgen or Death Knights, would also risk taking away their sinister edge, and also I donât think we need more explanation on why we would have Naga that are against Azshara. But after thinking, I do think the idea has some merit.
I donât think the player character would/should be one of these captured elves being turned into Naga, for the reasons I already mentioned. But I believe the player character would be among those that helps liberate them. This would especially make sense if the player character is among Naga that have already been rebelling against Azshara. This would definitely help earn the Alliance and Hordeâs trust and good favor for the player character and the other rebel Naga. All according to the rebel leaderâs plans, of course.
As many of us have, friend. Iâd make a warrior, shaman, warlock, hunter, Death Knight, a mage⌠maybe even a priest.
We must never give up. We must keep joining our voices as one until Blizzard notices us, and keep shouting at them until they can no longer ignore us!
My issue with this, is even if Azshara were to single-handedly save the world, sheâs been behind, or complicit in the deaths of too many people (literally hundreds of thousands because of her dealings with Sargeras), assisted in unleashing too much destruction and hardship, and nearly unleashed too many dark gods onto the planet that would have destroyed it. All for the most selfish of reasons.
The calls for justice and vengeance would be too many from both the Horde and Alliance. Azshara can never be redeemed, or even hope for her existence to be tolerated by the factions. We can hope for red and blue to tolerate some of her people, though.
I think my Naga would be a mage.
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What spec? Frooooost? Hm?