It’s an interessing question 
Or no helmets?
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Presumably the first, it would just be massively stretched and distorted like Worgen and Tauren.
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Aye, honestly not my favorite concept either. It would at least explain the similarity but yeah the timeline would be hard to work right.
Sethrak are already in a good place to join and don’t need to be titan based for any real purpose.
Wowhead showed that helmets arent a big issue and would likely be tauren/worgen like in how they show.
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Liking them as curse of the flesh titan constructs or not aside, it really isn’t hard to make a logical working theory.
Mythrax destroyed the seal in Vol’dun ~16,000 years ago, that seal was one of the three sealing G’huuns prison, which means that Titan Facility and its seals were already on Zandalar 16,000 years ago.
And as per the dungeon guide entry I quoted last time:
The titans sent out refti to distant shores for important missions, defending the titan facility and its seals, including the one in Vol’dun that was under old god minion attack, would fit, and they could easily have been affected by the curse of the flesh over the course of what occurred there.
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no helmet transmog = dropped
/sagethread
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It’s not that there could not have been titan constructs or refti there, but that the sethrak were already fleshy by the time of 16k years ago. Which would put them earlier than any other titanforged afflicted by the curse, 15k years ago was when the vrykul metal skin turned brittle and they started to give birth to humans once fleshy.
15k yeasr ago is also when it afflicted the Mogu who then turned into infighting.
Having the sethrak be descendants of the refti would require them to predate all the others by at the very least 1k years, and maybe even more since they’ve physically changed quite a bit by gaining hoods and losing the horns. And it would make the lack of titan related knowledge etc strange for the sethrak in general, since the sethrak is an extremely long-lived race with individuals becoming 16k+ years old so such information should be kept quite well. But we don’t see anything of it in the sethrak culture we know of. Nothing like the vrykul veneration of the keepers, the mogu’s desire to enforce their view of the titans order on Azeroth, gnome’s having tales of mythical technology of Mimiron, the dwarves with their stories of the makers, etc.
The sethrak only has veneration for Sethraliss and the faithless lack of it that instead is a desire for power and conquest.
This is why I think it feels very shoe-horned in if they would make the sethrak a refti descendant.
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16,000 years for one compared to 15,000 for others really isn’t that much of a stretch that they could have simply been the first occurrence, during a major conflict with void minions that occurred then. Also the creations turning on their makers after the curse of a flesh is certainly not uncommon (the before said Vykrul, who turned on them starting with those that followed King Ymiron after the curse hit), or straight up forgot where they came from (finding the titan archives in Wrath and going along with Brahn to find out the origins of the dwarves was a major story point, they found out what their origins were then, and were majorly surprised in that expansion)
I will admit I would figure a little more could have been said, but really we don’t have a great deal more of their history for them then we do for the Vulpera, which is to say not a whole lot in either case. And for what we do, nothing that that would contradict that theory that they could be curse of the flesh Refti.
Edit:
Quick note from the Vyrkrul, from Exploring Azeroth: Northrend page 20, but also seen in various quests in Northrend flashbacks:
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We know that the sethrak lived and worshipped Sethraliss together with the trolls, before the whole Aqir war and attack by mythrax. So at minimum 16k years ago, but certainly before the arrival of Mythrax.
Then I will repeat the point of the large changes between Refti and Sethrak. The hoods and horns.
I’m not saying they will grovel at the feet of the titans, my point is that due to the sethrak’s long life, they if anyone should have more knowledge about the titans and titan constructs as we’ve seen in many lesser lived titanic races that have such things in their cultures. But it’s never mentioned at all, which is strange if they indeed are a titanforged race. Since they never really talk about why Mythrax broke the seal, or what the seal even is, just that he did and how Sethraliss fought him.
I ask you, why do you believe the sethrak should come from the refti? Is there a gain for the story or sethrak worldbuilding?
Edit: forgot a whole part of one of the sentences.
That however is the point I made, we have both a race that is titan creation descendant that lost that knowledge until they discovered it again in Wrath (Dwarves), and the fact that we have very little knowledge of the Sethrak that has been given to us at all, certainly not anything that we could give a definite origin from.
We know they have incredibly long lives, as some that partook in a war 16,000 years ago and are still alive today, and that they have two factions one that split from the other at a date we haven’t even been given, we don’t have barely any information on their history to make any accurate guess, but the theory fits and is not broken by what little we do have.
For me personally I am perfectly ok with them being their own thing not tied to the titans in any way, or as ex-refti, it is fine for me either way.
But as per what I said above, we have basically no information about them as a race besides the bits above, so the only two theories that particulary fit, is either they existed as they are from the beginning, or they are refti that were afflicted by the curse of the flesh.
And as the Refti besides some differences on the head are a complete match for something that we have not seen before, or since, that is way too much a ‘coincidence’ for me to ignore.
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Man id love to play as Sethrak. I thought they were awesome in BFA.
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I don’t agree. See my earlier points I will post again below.
- Would predate the first other known victims of the curse of flesh by 1k years at the very least.
- Lack of titanic knowledge despite extremely long-lived individuals and adjacency to titan relics/keepers
- They were already flesh before the Aqir war so that void encounter can’t have been the trigger.
- We’ve not seen large morphological changes in the titan-forged beings cursed so far. Outside of the size and material they’re made out of, we’ve not seen any new features come about unless they’re the change of the following evolution that happen to mortals over time. Vrykul remained the same, and even the descendant race keep the same body shape just more shrunk down, the mogu also remain in their own likeness, the gnomes as well, the dwarves however later gained new traits like the DID with their fiery hair and eyes, but no other major features.
Losing horns and gaining a hood is too much for me to ignore.
Also if they simply “forgot” their titanic knowledge, and changed from horns to hood over the generations, that would put them so insanely far back in time and cause a larger issue with the curse of flesh since they are such a long-lived race.
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16,000 vs 15,000 and just because we didn’t know about them doesn’t mean it easily could not have been the first occurrence that we only find out about later, really doesn’t mean anything.
Neither dwarves or gnomes knew anything about their origins until Wrath, they were more technologically minded, but had no idea why until then.
This one I will give you, however there have been more conflicts with the Void since the Titans arrived to Azeroth, there is plenty of time for the refti to have been involved and been corrupted, as per above.
There we will highly disagree, human to vyrkul is a massive morphological change compared to loosing some horns, it is much more then simply becoming smaller the difference between them. We will absolutely have to agree to disagree here.
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The dwarves have titan influence in them though. You can see it in the names like Khaz Modan, like the titan Khaz’goroth, the gnomes had a legend about a mythical land of technology which is why King Mechagon ventured away from Gnomeregan. I’m not saying that they should know everything, but there should be traces of titan influence. Especially if it’s a long-lived race since it makes it harder to have such knowledge fade over the generations. Especially if you almost live on top of important titan architecture like the sethrak does with the seals and the larger facility in Nazmir.
Can you explain what these changes are? The Vrykul have the same body shape as a human person, the same amount of digits, the same skin tones and hair colors, even hair at the same places, if a regular human grew a beard and had a good physique then they could very much look almost identical to a vrykul just smaller.
I’d just like to add, that it would be a slim chance of a titanforged race actually turning simply just by a void encounter, since we are told the titanforged were built for “high-stress environments” and used to literally punch back the legions of old god minions during the containment of the old gods back in the day.
This explains why Yogg had to infest the actual forge to manage to turn them into flesh.
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Which is true, except that we have been given nothing about them other that they live a long time, and were involved in the war back then, and had a faction split at some point after that.
That is essentially all we have been given about them as a race, so all of that could be there, but we have no information to go on as I said before.
Things are not that carbon copy as that, and by that argument gnomes and dwarves are simply humans that were shrunk down.
Vyrkrul were as their titan construct was, humans are a very different beast. We see in flashbacks in Wrath two Vyrkrul parents having to hide their ‘deformed’ kid so that he isn’t killed same as the other ‘deformed’ that were being born instead of further Vyrkrul.
It is not simply loosing some horns, it is an entirely different race morphologically being caused by the Curse of Flesh.
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Gnomes and dwarves have very different body shape though. Arm size, head shape/size, amount of digits.
Comparably the humans and the vrykuls are much closer since they actually have the same body proportions with the main difference being the size. Show a picture of a vrykul to anyone not familiar with wow and they’d say it is a video game viking.
And I’d argue that a baby being born half the size of a regular baby is a kind of deformity for them, especially in a culture that is all about strength like the vrykul
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My point exactly, it is a massive morphological change to the race yes, one caused by the curse of the flesh, and not just in small number that occurred, and loosing some horns is nothing compared to that.
Which I will point out, not even all Rifti have:
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Well, I don’t really agree with this… Since well I think a simple size change is a lot less massive change, than losing something like horns and gaining something else. But maybe if they were hornless refti yeah.
Still I have the issue of the curse of flesh and I think it would be one of the more forced things in this expansion if they actually did go that way. And would have to push back the curse of flesh at least 30k years(but even that is on the lower side due to the long life) in my opinion to make it somewhat believable, so time and generations pass and allow for things to fall out from their culture and knowledge, as well as allow for the changes to the bodies.
Also not a big fan of it just being a result of a random void encounter since it undermines the actual curse of flesh and some of my reasoning below.
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I both agree and disagree here, gnomes and dwarves if they had remembered things would have kept written record of what they used to be, so that both would not have been completely surprised on finding out their origins in Wrath. So it would be no leap of logic for me that the Sethrak would not remember either, between the split and fighting that occurred from that, and especially since again, we have extremely little given for them.
This I can definitely stand behind as a reason against the theory.
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The first dwarves did at least know, since after they woke up they discovered their control over and to shape the earth was gone, and they then ventured into what was to be known as Khaz Modan and built an altar to Khaz’Goroth their creator, and this altar was where the great forge and Ironforge would lie.
We can also see in the other titan forged like the Mogu and Tol’vir that they remembered the titans after they turned to flesh.
It seems like it’s just like any knowledge that it’s gone if not maintained over the generations.
The only ones that seem to have forgotten a lot are surprisingly the gnomes, that after turning into fleshy gnomes lost their purpose and left Uldaman about 3k years ago, still it’s never specified if it’s first-generation gnomes or later generations, since it is so much later in time however I’d imagine it’s later generations that simply lost their purpose.
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Putting my hand in the ring, I want them playable too. Sethrak shaman would be incredible to play!
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