Unintended Bear and Cat Forms (Part 1)

Community Legion Remix
4749

No, that’s not my claim that’s your strawman. My claim is that when people do things they’d rather not do, simply because they feel compelled to avoid missing out on a reward, they are being manipulated by artificial scarcity.

Again, you’re being obtuse. At this point, I no longer think it’s intentional.

obviously the reward is part of the gameplay experience. The problem occurs when it’s the only rewarding part of that gameplay experience.

As someone who designs games I have to disagree with your oversimplification.

I could say, “I’ll give you $20 if you punch yourself in the face.” Someone who really wants $20 might still do it, technically, that’s a “game.”

Just because people are willing to play doesn’t mean it’s good design.

They don’t have to tell you to do it they just say it’s only available for a limited time, and your own sense of “I don’t want to miss out” does the rest.

You’ve even admitted this yourself: when you’re given the option to skip it and get the reward later, you take the easier route. But when that option is removed, you don’t skip it.

Honestly, talking to you is making me more concerned about FOMO-driven design. I guess I just assumed we all recognised it, but choose to engage anyway despite our better judgment.

No, something can be popular because people are satisfied with it but something that is popular doesn’t need to be satisfying.

Gambling is popular, do you think most gamblers are satisfied?

Yes, and in those cases it’s now the players moving away.

4750

But I have this thought that it can’t be my main if I can’t get all the forms for it.

I just can’t wrap my head around this. It’s uncommon - rare that people can complete collections of a long running series in any other context. Why is this different?

Fans of Batman may never read the original 60 years of content, and it doesn’t diminish their enjoyment of what they do have.

1 Like
4751

Semi-daily vote of support for the druids who want the forms. :heart_hands:

12 Likes
4752

Because in most of those cases, the possibility still exists, and where it doesn’t, it’s usually for a reason that isn’t arbitrary.

Many of the arguments against making these items obtainable again sound eerily similar to arguments historically used to justify inequality.

“If they bring back Mage Tower rewards, they’ll have to bring back X, Y, and Z”

isn’t far off from:

“If we let women vote, next they’ll want to own property.”

Both rely on the same flawed logic, that change is bad simply because “that’s the way it’s always been.”

And before anyone starts; no, I’m not comparing this to something as serious as real world equality.

And that’s exactly the point: it’s not real life. It’s a game.

So when people say “why are you crying over pixels” or “it’s not a big deal just get over it” why is it suddenly such a big deal to bring them back? The only reason these things are rare is because Blizzard flicked a switch. Flicking it back on doesn’t undo anyone’s personal achievements.

In WoW, there are a lot of great classes to play, so picking a main can be tough especially for someone who doesn’t have the time to invest in more than one. But when only one class in the game is missing a bunch of customisation options with no way to obtain them, it ends up feeling like the lesser option by default.

4 Likes
4753

Exactly, why is it such a big deal to bring them back if it’s just pixels? Wouldn’t you be just fine without having the appearances? (hint, you will and are)

That aside, limited items is the status quo in almost any live service game, especially MMO’s, where there is prestige attached. Whether or not you agree you see the prestige is up to you because “it’s just pixels”, but it is there for some folks and is a motivating factor and simply the truth.

1 Like
4754

Nope wrong dude, we play games that dont have fomo.

Fomo or removed content doesn’t respect anyones time. The only people that like that style of content to be fomo are usually bad players that need to pretend flex.

If the challenge is brought back, and its 10x harder than the original and people are still mad.

Thats just sad. Enough said.

Still not a single valid reason for them to not be in the game.

8 Likes
4755

Rant incoming lol.

Honestly? No not really, in isolation sure it’s not an enormous deal after all I could just play a different class etc. (this is still problematic)
But it’s not in isolation, I’ve been playing the game for what I would consider a pretty long time and over the years these little grievances add up and there’s a point of overlap between how much you love something and how much it frustrates you. My love for WoW is not unconditional.

The bug that happened, when it happened, got my hopes up, even if for moment. The following fix was expected but the way Blizzard seemed to just sweep it under the rug really left a bad taste in my mouth (especially considering they ruined Overwatch Stadium on the same day lol)

As a game developer myself I’ve come to really appreciate devs/publishers who interact with there community and I’m just not seeing this with Blizzard lately.

So on the surface, it’s about the mage tower, but it’s far more than that.

Time limited items that return eventually or can be obtained at a later date, sure.
Time limited items that never return? Not so much anymore. The 2 main games I play that do this is Overwatch and WoW and I think you can guess where I’m going with this.

My 3rd most played game has 3 things from memory that are unobtainable and those were founders edition items, admittedly I’d love to have them but I can accept this as those people are in part responsible for getting the game off the ground.

My 4th most played game used to have time limited items that were unobtainable but changed their business model.

You get the idea.

A games success is not contingent on it having unobtainable rewards.

I can agree only to the extent that I acknowledge “I like my cool stuff because it’s rare”
But where this begins to fall apart is that what is “rare” is determined by Blizzard in a way that at times is unfair.
For example, the AOTC mounts, for some people doing AOTC might’ve been the absolute peak of their personal performance and perhaps they felt pretty good about having something others didn’t get, yet Blizzard decides to add this to remix (and I suspect the trading post at a later date considering it was datamined that the Kor’Kron war wolf from the SoO AOTC had been updated with a Traders Tender cost - I’m assuming all AOTC mounts might end up on trading post at some point)

But I digress;
Why should those people have to share their prestige reward but others don’t?
And In a game that’s become increasingly pay-to-win, “prestige” starts to lose its meaning.
And when it becomes more about who was there rather than who could complete the challenge, so do challenges.

1 Like
4756

same 10 people arguing back and forth. no matter the like ratio on the post, I think that shows enough how many people actually care for them to get back. Reddit threads are buried after a week into the nether and the druid discord stopped talking about it 3 days after the fix of the bug.

Some people are just in delusion that its a huge number caring for their return. No one but 10 people are “fighting” for a change, the rest of those redditors and people that “care” do nothing.

advocate for new challenges that dont just reward a title / mount or for recolors of the mt

4 Likes
4757

LOL they are still complaining about this?

2 Likes
4758

Guys. Its over. No one playing this game does things by choice. Its all Blizzard manipulation! They’ve somehow achieved government like control over all our minds!

Yet MTX phone games are littered with them, and theres over a million of them. Go figure right?

Gamblers are satisfied gambling, yes actually. That’s why they keep doing it. They’re ardent satisfied when they lose. Big difference.

4759

The odds of some series republishing content decades old is low. The exact same odds that Blizzard returns content that is old.

This is not different.

I’m not crying over what Blizzard may do in the future. I am saying that in life there will always be things that people can’t get for one reason or another and eventually, people need to learn to accept it.

If you want to die on this hill, that’s on you. I suspect however you’ll just end up disappointed.

4760

points at not one but two Remixes

3 Likes
4761

Expansion features and seasons (and their rewards) aren’t fomo no matter how many times you repeat it. Dude.

Bringing back OG mage tower doesn’t respect the time of anybody who busted their humps trying to do it while it was current. Guess who’s more important.

I’m sure this is backed by empirical data and not simply the emotional lashings out of a petulant child.

The difficulty isn’t the only factor. Blizzard has explained this and you refuse to listen.

Ya? I’m glad you see things my way.

What defines valid is what Blizzard considers valid, not you. EnOuGh SaId.

4762

I’m going to assume we’re talking about comic books still, decades old books that are no longer being published isn’t something most people would consider to be arbitrary but while they exist and people are willing to trade them, they continue to be obtainable.

Bear in mind that you’re saying this during an event that is all about revisiting content from a decade ago lol but I think I get what you’re saying.

I do think it’s different though, Blizzard could switch it back on at any time if they choose to do so. I can understand some of the reasons they choose not to (upsetting original owners, not being able to reproduce the conditions in which it was awarded 1:1 etc) but it’s been a decade. The moment they make forms that are better they will be left in the past, they’ll likely never get updates or improvements because what is the point of upgrading old assets that only a small percentage of players will still be using or even own, more people could be enjoying them, the assets for them are even living rent free on my hard drive :joy:.

This is true, about life.

But I can’t turn into a bear in real life, and gaming is often used to escape reality.

I think even you could agree with me that missing out on something isn’t a good experience especially when it might’ve been your only chance, heck some people didn’t even get the chance.

So if missing out on things is a negative experience, why is it part of gaming which is supposed to be a positive experience?

Honestly, I expect and accept that too, but it’s something I feel pretty strongly about and I think it’s worth a shot. (besides at this point I kinda just wanna see it hit 5000 so I’ll probably stick around until then)

Anyway, I appreciate the genuine discussion, even if we don’t agree.

2 Likes
4763

This but in reverse.

The guy in Korea piloting someone’s account through a VPN?

There is merit to what they said. But I might be biased because I think being better than someone at a game is a bigger flex than how much stuff you have. I don’t care what people have, I just care about what I have. Honestly if I’m not in VC with people I sometimes forget I’m surrounded by real players.

4764

What I do know is that there are some talks behind the scenes, whether anything will come from that at this point is doubtful.

4765

It’s significantly more than 10 people who want these rewards to return too. Most players don’t actively participate in forums. And most people didn’t have a chance to unlock them all.

and… I really hope they do; also, with WoW coming to consoles soon, it’s awesome that I can finally get my younger sibling to finally play WoW in 2027 (they’re a console person, not PC). I know they’d love to sparkle too

8 Likes
4766

I think even you could agree with me that missing out on something isn’t a good experience especially when it might’ve been your only chance, heck some people didn’t even get the chance.

I often buy limited edition items. It does suck when I don’t manage to source a particular thing.

I do accept that tho, and I don’t demand that the company re-issue said item.

1 Like
4767

Personally I don’t think it’ll be this particular issue that drives change as much as I’d like it to be, but it might serve as a catalyst.

Frustration with FOMO-driven design has grown significantly in recent years, likely in part due to the pandemic when more people were at home playing games, getting hooked on new titles, buying multiple battle passes etc and eventually realising they couldn’t keep up. Especially since the best rewards are almost always towards the end of the battle pass. WoW is probably less affected by this compared to other games as I’d guess a large portion of the WoW playerbase mostly sticks to WoW (because you kinda have to if you want to to get everything done)

The question is if they do move further away from FOMO will they change it retroactively.

4768

they are adding a hall of fame delve title and a mistwalker like title for m+ in midnight. speaking of fomo, they do the exact opposite on what people are hoping for. they double down on it.