I love Unholy, but it’s just clunky at times. Why can’t Dark Transformation and Apocalypse be baked into a single button?
Edit: Dark Transformation off the GCD would be best for everyone.
9 Likes
Because… Reasons?
Especially merging two abilities into a single global sounds too strong?
Either way, pretty solid idea for an otherwise a dumb reason why these abilities are separate.
1 Like
This was something Blizzard was considering at the start of either Slands or BFA (Can’t remember which) so the idea has been floating around for a while.
Sure it makes sense from a purely PvE point of view as it saves 1 gcd but from a PvP point of view it’s actually a large burden. This is due to the fact Dark Transformation is a utility button as well as a dps cooldown, turning your ghoul large gives you access to a new kick via pet charge, increases your gnaw duration (and damage), and can AOE it’s claw to apply wounds to a whole group. Meanwhile apocalypse requires you to be in melee range of a target you have setup with festering wounds. Combining the two would mean if you want to ghoul kick someone you would need to festering strike twice and then apocalypse in melee range in order to enable the access to ghoul charge, so 3 GCDs prep assuming you have the resources, where Dark Transformation being it’s own thing leaves you with 1 GCD of prep. Similar can be said about setup for AOE packs in dungeons.
You can reduce the setup time to 2 GCDs with unholy assault sure, but that ability both has a longer cooldown, and imo really shouldn’t exist as it just creates more cooldown burden to bandaid fix a problem with apocalypse being both a weird finishing move and an opener cooldown, making it fit into the rotation like a square in a circle hole.
Combining the cooldowns also does nothing to solve one of our main issues, which is the fact too much of our damage is locked behind cooldowns, leaving us with pitiful damage outside of those cooldowns, with which we must further divide between pets, dots, strikes, and spells as unholy is already trying to be so many things at once. We need less cooldowns or weaker cooldowns and combining cooldowns doesn’t help us with this issue, especially if we expect all the separate parts to remain good. The reason our abilities all hit for nothing is because our cooldowns are taking up all the oxygen in the room.
Personally I would much rather they make Dark Transformation and Apocalypse a choice node, make all the dependent talents work for both, and then let us select between pure single target and AOE/Utility. Maybe also eliminate the need for festering wounds on apocalypse to smooth out the rotation independent of player choice.
Just my rant, feel free to disagree.
3 Likes
^ easy, just take one off the gcd…
1 Like
I dislike this as a solution, because when your cooldowns are off gcd, the correct thing to do is to macro them into one another, at which point it raises the question of why aren’t these just a single button in the first place?
Unholy does have too many cooldowns, but merging DT into Apoc feels awkward. I’d more prefer to see UA merged into Apoc in some form.
1 Like
pro players prefer granular control. taking DT off the GCD is the correct solution, but since its a player suggested one, blizzard will never implement it, so here we are.
no, the correct thing is to get good enough you don’t need silly macros like that.
3 Likes
Why do people keep repeating this like 2h which was a player suggestion wasnt implemented, KM rank 2 which was player suggestion wasnt implemented, arctic assault coming back which was player suggestion, fatal fixation which was a player suggestion.
The thing is you guys dont listen to Blizzard. Blizzard has stated that if a CD does damage then its on the GCD. DT does initial damage so its on the GCD. Apoc needs to pop wounds so its on the GCD. Empower Rune Weapon doesnt do damage so its off the GCD.
DT used to not do damage, they added damage to the initial press in order to justify not taking it off the GCD after the attempt at combining it with Apoc.
5 Likes
But it does damage now. Therefore its on the GCD.
a papercut is technically damage. the reason taking DT off the GCD is the correct solution is that it makes everyone happy. PVPers will finally be able to use petkick mid GCD and PVEers can just macro it with Apoc and put their rotation on cruise. either way you play it the result would be a better more responsive feeling from the toolkit.
10 Likes
Whats the point of your post exactly? It has nothing to do with me or what I said. I said that DT is on the GCD because it does damage. Cant really say anything against it.
Now if you want to say remove the damage and make it off the GCD then say that. They arent just going to take it off the GCD so long as it does damage because a few people on the forums cant handle another GCD.
There is no “get good” you literally always use DT and Apoc together.
I do not care about pvp.
Also, using macros IS getting good.
1 Like
i don’t always. i see why you want to though, but it isn’t wholly necessary enough that the class needs the spells combined. i have to assume you have leap and gnaw on auto still as well, it tends to go hand in hand with wanting to merge DT into the rotation automatically.
you should, nothing makes you better at the game than getting good at pvp.
macros raise the skill floor and make you feel better than you are. occasionally the wow UI will bug out and your macros will not work, raw spells placed on your bars do however. if this happens when you are in the middle of a pvp fight, the last thing you want is to have to /reload so your macros can work again, its best to just learn to be good without them so that when that moment happens, you won’t be impacted by it.
and of course there is self pride of knowing i can do what you can do but i don’t need macros to do it, you might be able to match me on the meter with your macros, but you aren’t at my level.
1 Like
wouldnt this screw over PvPers? I dnt pvp so im not sure? I get where this comes from, Fdk has a couple of choice macros to manage their 4 different CDs, mean while Udk still has a launch sequence. I dont really mind it tbh, i thnk esp now since blight got mixed into DT and army is gone its pretty simple. Whole opener is only 6 gcds now, compared to some other specs thats pretty damn fast. Sucks in lowkeys tho, u finish a sweet opener and by the time ur rdy to blast the ret pallys killed everything alrdy T_T
OGCD DT is a great idea. I would not care if they removed the useless initial dmg so I could just macro Appc and DT together, and now PvPers can make leap DT macros for the enemy healer. Actually love this idea
1 Like
It’s the correct solution because it effectively acts as a single button/spell without harming scenarios in which you don’t want to use both at the same time.
It’s okay to be wrong though…
2 Likes
Sort of funny that you think this b/c it would make Unholy easier to beat in arena than it is now. Unholy is currently the worst melee so it’s very very beatable. I’ll explain b/c people who claim to have a lot of class knowledge don’t it seems.
If you bake all the CD’s into DT it’s a matter of killing the ghoul twice before you have to deal with a cooldown. All I’d have to do is sap the dk, drop the ghoul in open do it again and all your cd’s would be null for 30s. That’s +10-15% dampen in solo and now the dk is super behind in damage.
I already keep full bleeds/dots on Unholy pets to drop them so they can’t DT into petkick/stun. I’ll also Gouge it on DT into a root so the Unholy Blight doesn’t get spread and also to further delay kick/stun from pet. On my priest I’ll shackle or just chain kill it to stop DT.
Instead of wanting the class dumbed down get better as a player. It was a big mistake to put Unholy Blight on ghoul, and it would be a bigger mistake to put Apoc and DT together.
Signed a duelist dk, not last season b/c class is hot garbage in pvp and I didn’t bother to play it.
bold of you to assume we aren’t insane enough to trinket sap, also, i see your elaborate plan to kill the pet and counter with pet defensive.
Right into garrote if you do, which locks you from pet control and starts the chain. I’ve seen a few dk’s try this already and it makes for a fast win for my team.
Sort of like bm pets, people at higher ratings pull out the stops to shut them down too. Roots,aoe fear etc.
It’s Raz Inemia, this is my rogue.
EHP counters that too, its why they keep nerfing our stam. but i haven’t played in a month so atm im just forumchair quarterbacking.
1 Like